TRANSCRIPT
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
kristen, relationship, dan, people, couples, parents, learned, music, hear, love, important, conflict, person, family, commitment, kids, partner, appreciates, couple, find
SPEAKERS
Dan Wetzel, Matthew Hoffman, Kimberly Hoffman, Kristen Grainger
Matthew Hoffman
We’re so excited to have a dynamic musical powerhouse coupled with us today from the West Coast of the United States. Welcome back to the Kickass Couples Podcast. And we are welcoming Kristen Grainger and Dan Wetzel to the podcast today. Thanks for joining us, guys!
Dan Wetzel
Thank you guys, for having us.
Kristen Grainger
Pleasure to be here.
Matthew Hoffman
Our pleasure. We’re glad to have you. We love to start off every interview with a similar question. And, Dan, I’m going to ask you to start if you don’t mind, I’d like to know what you think makes the two of you a kick ass couple?
Dan Wetzel
Well, that’s a good question. We met a little bit later in our life, and both had been in other marriages and relationships. And so we’re really picky about what we want in a relationship. And when we met it, it was just real easy to see how that fit together. And we’ve been able to share so many parts of our lives. I think we each had a long list of things that were important to us to find in a partner and we found that in each other, so the things we do together and the time we spend together is just kind of top shelf for both of us.
Matthew Hoffman
That’s great. How about what would you add to that, Kristen?
Kristen Grainger
To me, the wonderful thing about being Dan’s wife and Dan’s partner is that we have lots of, we love to be together. And we have lots of common interests. And I know there’s lots of couples who are like, well, I want my independence, and I want to go off and do my things and come back as a couple, but we just want to be together all the time. And fortunately, we’ve structured our lives so we can be together. We make music together, we work in the garden together, we walk and hike, and enjoy the outdoors together, our kids nearly live nearby, so we see them. And it’s just this great compatibility that is both exciting and peaceful. And, and I love that about our relationship.
Matthew Hoffman
Great. So you got some good elements going there.
Kimberly Hoffman
Sounds like you share a lot of quality time together, which is awesome.
Dan Wetzel
We really do, we feel really lucky about that. We don’t, neither of us have to say, Well, I hope it’s okay with you. I’m gonna go off and do this. Now. It’s usually something we’re both doing. And we just have one scheduled to coordinate that way.
Kristen Grainger
And of course, if you fall in love with Dan Wetzel, then you have to learn to play golf. And I had never even held the Golf Club in my hands, didn’t know a thing about it, didn’t know what the little pointy things were, no idea. So I took a golf, he taught me everything I know about golf, which is still very little bit, you know, I think the other thing is that we try to meet each other in the middle and be and take up interest that the other person might have so that we can spend as much time together as we can.
Kimberly Hoffman
Too many people don’t do that. And you’re right, they go in separate directions. And this just catches up with each other a little bit later. But I think it’s really great when you’re willing to say, Hey, I’m going to take up golf. If it’s something you love to do, I’m going to learn to do it too.
Kristen Grainger
Exactly.
Kimberly Hoffman
Well, I like to when we ask questions to our interviewees, I love to go back a little bit before we go forward. I really believe that we’re a product of the people who raised us. And sometimes that experience is a great one. And sadly, sometimes it can be a net negative experience. And so Dan, I’m gonna ask you first, what did love look like when you were growing up? And how was it modeled for you?
Dan Wetzel
You know, I grew up in a nuclear family, my mom and dad were married until they both passed away. And we had a fairly small family, I have one older sister and myself. So we, I learned that family meant dinner at the table every night. And a lot of activities together, when we were small. They would try to pick things that they knew we might be interested in, or that they wanted to interest us in, like camping and fishing and things like that. And, my parents weren’t real demonstrative. They didn’t say I love you. They didn’t talk to us out loud, but they demonstrated it in ways by always being there for us, always taking care of us. I think a lot of what I developed as a, what was important to me and in what love meant, I kind of developed as I watched them, but also looked at other couples that I knew either family members when I was smaller, or couples as I started to become an adult and, and started to identify what I thought were the important elements of, of a relationship and intimate relationship. And that evolved as I matured into not necessarily the big things a lot of times it was the small things you know, is this somebody I could spend all my time with. Is this somebody I would enjoy just sitting while we’re both reading? Is somebody I could be in the car with for six hours and still find conversation? And so those little tests became kind of my markers as I started to get into relationships on my own to figure out what love looked like.
Kimberly Hoffman
So you felt loved, you just maybe didn’t necessarily experience a lot of visible affection.
Dan Wetzel
Exactly. That’s, that’s well said. And I know my sister and I joke about this now as adults that when we’re a little all we each heard about was how great the other one was. And we never heard it to ourselves. And then we would hear from the other one Oh, dad talks about you all the time and says this, but for whatever reason, it was awkward for them to say it directly to us. So we had to learn from our family what approval we had after spending our youth trying to get it.
Kimberly Hoffman
So there were three things that you took away from that you said I’m going to do this I’m going to change this and this is what I’m going to do in the next relationship. Or maybe things also that you said, Well, I’m not going to do that, because it really didn’t work very well.
Dan Wetzel
Exactly. I think everything we learned about relationships, we, you know, we learned from being in them and watching them and a lot of our decisions, our reactions to what we did or didn’t have. So, yeah, it’s really important and easy for me to tell my kids I love them, and make sure and do that regularly. And, and for whatever reason that was awkward for my parents. I don’t know, but I want to make sure they hear from me all the time.
Kimberly Hoffman
Sure. And that, that it’s just gonna make it very easy for them and very natural for them to do it for their own children. How about you, Kristen? How was love modeled for you when you were growing up as a child?
Kristen Grainger
Well, like Dan, I had a nuclear family that my parents were together until my father passed away a few years ago. And a big family though, Three brothers in me 4 kids and 5 years. So it was an unusually big, noisy scrum of, you know, activity. Yeah, you’re right. Right. Right. And we also like to do a lot of things together, my parents cultivated a few friendships, few close friendships are in their adult world, outside of the family, but really, their focus was on us and their, their relationship in terms of how they made decisions and, and whose domain was whose and how all that worked as a couple was really invisible to the kids, I think it was something that was something they were very careful to say, you know, this is a separate thing that’s between us. And then they kind of had their own roles in raising kids, there was a lot of competition in my family. So competition for attention, for my father’s approval, he was a very, incredibly dynamic and accomplished successful surgeon; he had really high standards. So the goal was always to outstrip your siblings and, and win whatever it is the tension of my dad, the approval of my dad. And that was a hard thing for me to overcome, as one of the things that as a parent I’ve sought to never do is to try to, you know, for lack of a better word, pit kids against each other. But at the same time, it made us all very achievement oriented as all of my brothers are very accomplished. And we’ve had these kinds of high powered jobs and, and I think my mom’s house was her domain. My dad was in the working world, and the world of professional medicine was his domain. And they both liked and were good at their respective roles. And I appreciated that, connectivity and, and compatibility between the two of them that there was not a lot of controversy, or, or conflict in my house growing up related to the relationship between my parents. And my father and mother loved each other. They were demonstrative about their love for each other. But they, they never argued or discussed, really anything of substance in front of the kids. And so we never had any idea about whether there was any kind of, you know, issues. I remember, once, when my parents were going to move from a place My mother loved to a place they didn’t know very much about. And my mom had just bought her first house, and they were very excited about, you know, living in this nice little neighborhood. And then my dad found a practice, he wanted to join, and my mom was just kind of grumpy for a few months. But other than that, I mean, I really didn’t have a sense of the of the any kind of a conflict there. So there were some good things to pick up. And some things that I personally thought I I don’t know that that’s, that’s not the kind of relationship I want to have. And I also think the sharing of parenting is super important. And to not have, you know, your your one parent that is on a day to day, here’s how the household is going to work. And then dad’s kind of, you know, so what are we doing about this problem? And you know, so the mom was kind of in charge of the parenting and dad was in charge of bringing home the bacon. And that’s, that’s a generational thing. It’s a conventional thing. It’s not something that that I wanted to replicate in my own relationship.
Matthew Hoffman
Sure. Right. Well, we have 14 pillars in relationships. I don’t know if you have reviewed them, or if you have that sheet in front of you. We’re going to talk about that a little bit, today. And of those 14, we kind of feel there’s three central or foundational ones, we call them the three C’s: commitment, communication and conflict resolution. And I want to start off with the first C which is commitment. And Dan, I’d love for you to tell me what commitment looks like in the relationship that you have with Kristen?
Dan Wetzel
You know, it’s, it’s all encompassing, it’s kind of the main thread of of our relationship and, and that was one of those things that I knew was important to me and I learned was important to Kristen when I first met her that that it’s it’s not really a solid relationship you can trust unless that element is there and how that manifests itself is 1000 ways. Kristen mentioned, we love to spend time with each other. But we’re also always going to make sure we know what’s going on with each other, check in a lot, we text probably, you know, 50 times a day, sometimes more if we’re, if we’re busy doing things and just want to offer support, or how’s that going? Or, Hey, can you do this? You know, it’s a good source of communication, but then we’ll have every chance we’ll have, we’ll be on the phone if we’re not together. And then when we have a chance, we’d rather just spend our time together and sit and talk and, and that commitment is, is, it’s a thread through our whole relationship, there’s just never going to be a doubt whose corner we’re in first when any kind of a thing comes up. It might be a group dynamic, where there’s conflict, or some. We just know that we have each other’s back first and foremost, and that we’re going to show that to everyone that’s involved. And then we tell that to each other in many ways. One of my favorite things we do is, we don’t we don’t give each other anniversary presents, but we write a letter to each other that kind of encompasses the past year since our last anniversary, and we write them and then we read them out loud to each other. You know, like, I’ll read the one Kristen wrote me and she’ll read the one I wrote her and it’s, it’s a great summary of the past year. What are the highlights? What were the great moments? What’s important to us in a relationship now? This year, we wrote our 21st one of those letters, our 21st anniversary was a few weeks ago.
Matthew Hoffman
Congratulations on 21.
Dan Wetzel
Thank you.
Kimberly Hoffman
That’s a beautiful tradition.
Dan Wetzel
It’s just been great. It’s like our favorite thing we would have, we get a chance to talk about everything that’s important to us and say it out loud in writing, even if we’ve maybe not mentioned it as many times as we wanted to during the year or something, but.
Kristen Grainger
I think one of the best decisions we made early in our marriage, since the first anniversary, is to issue the idea of having to shop and find gifts every year. It didn’t mean anything after a while. I felt like this is the right thing for us to renew that connection. And, and remember the reasons we fell in love and stay in love.
Matthew Hoffman
That’s a great tradition.
Kimberly Hoffman
I love that you read them out loud as well.
Kristen Grainger
Usually crying.
Matthew Hoffman
No tears ever, right? No tears are shed
Dan Wetzel
Every time.
Matthew Hoffman
That happens to me too.
Dan Wetzel
It’s been amazing. As I, as I read this letter, Kristen writes to me, I’m like, I’ll stop, you know, oh, you noticed that? Oh, that you’re making note of that. I thought that kind of flew by. And it was only important to me, but you never feel more seen by your partner than when they put it all down in writing to say, here’s what I see.
Matthew Hoffman
That’s beautiful. What a great testament. Kristen, what would I’d love to kind of ask you what does commitment look like to you and your relationship with Dan?
Kristen Grainger
Well, I think the thing that comes through for me in terms of commitment is that it’s, it’s, it’s something I want to do, not something I gotta do. It’s something that it’s a fundamental, foundational thing, and that it’s like, I don’t love breathing. It’s I you know, it’s something that’s, that’s always there. And I know that it’s evident to other people, We were once, last year, we were playing a show up in Portland and backstage, that one of the women were playing with a group of artists we didn’t know, so it was a series of acts and and one of the artists said to me, Is that guy, your husband? And I said, Yes, he is. And she said, Well, that’s good. Because if he wasn’t your husband, your husband would be pissed. There’s something that people can tell about how we look at each other and how we interact, even how we perform music, that that just is emblematic of our commitment to each other. And it’s not an act, it’s just there. And I know, if we’re gonna, if we’re in a, in a crowded room and downs across the room, we’re gonna find each other’s eyes and, and the smiling eyes are gonna be catching mine from across the room. And that warm feeling that is the fundamental element to me of being committed to another person is that everyone can tell you’re committed, whether you’re wearing a ring or not. Whether you’re, you know, saying this is my husband or not, they can tell that you’re a couple, and that you’re, you know, in it to win it, kind of. You know it’s gonna stick.
Kimberly Hoffman
That expressiveness and you know, the way you’re expressing yourselves to each other people see that, and they pick that up.
Matthew Hoffman
Yeah, I love that. So I want to ask a little follow up question, two beautiful examples. Thank you for sharing both of those about commitment. And I have a question because not being a performing artist, at least currently in music, I would love to know from each of you are there songs that you all perform together that were either written for or about each other? Or when you sing them or play them? Are you playing them too, or for each other?
Kristen Grainger
Well, so I am the person who writes most of the music for Kristen Grainger True North, our band and we often started out as a duo, we still frequently book about half our shows as a duo. And I’ve written three, I think songs about Dan. And they’re some of them that when we play them, both of us have to keep from tearing up. And people come up after the show and say, Where can I find that song that you know that avalanche song or the Be Here Now song because I want to take that home and it means something to them too, they can tell that it’s a love song.
Dan Wetzel
The ones that Kristen writes, For me, I’m lucky enough to get to be the guitar player on them. But I noticed that I don’t sing on any of our songs we sing as duets. And I don’t sing on any of those. And part of that is because it’s her message to me. And part of it is because I can’t for the first two years.I’m I’m just looking down and tearing up and trying to get through the guitar part because it’s so touching, you know, for me to have her write something like that for me, and then present it to the world and say, Look, you know.
Matthew Hoffman
Yeah.
Kristen Grainger
And I did write one that we sing as a duo that is about relationships and how that you know, you kind of the peaks and valleys of relationships and how you soldier on through difficult times. And if you’re committed, you’re going to be in it for the long haul. And not not all gooey, dewy eyed love, but just the reality of what a real committed relationship looks like. So, yeah, so I guess they kind of run the spectrum.
Kimberly Hoffman
I want to talk with the two of you a little bit about communication, and what communication looks like in your relationship. You know, it’s essential, I think that we learn to communicate well within a relationship, but it’s not always easy. So Kristen, how do you and Dan communicate in your relationship? What does that look like in your marriage?
Kristen Grainger
Well, since we do so many things, music is a really intimate thing when you’re writing music, and when you’re performing music, and we used to joke that a band is like a dysfunctional family without unconditional love. I mean, that’s how bands operate, they don’t have the same level of emotional investment in, you know, the success of the endeavor as a family would have. But they yet they all have to kind of coexist and communicate and, and, and thrive together. And, and in our relationship, since we do so many things together that require this intimacy and trust and, and connection that we have, this checking in thing that Dan talked about, we check in a lot. And when we’re not together for even a few hours, we just like to be in connection and just check in and we’ll, you know, we communicate through through just ordinary things that couples do in terms of parenting in terms of, you know, running a household, managing a budget, those kinds of things. But more than that, I think our communication is through this closeness. And when we don’t feel that closeness, we call it being in the bubble. And when we don’t feel like we’re in the bubble, then we want to stop and figure out why and get back in it. And sometimes we do that while talking. Sometimes we do that with physical touch. Sometimes we do that with music. But that’s an important, important part of how we reconnect or refresh that connection. Get back in the bubble.
Kimberly Hoffman
Does one of you just say wait, timeout? We’re not in the bubble. We’ve got to regroup. Is that something?
Kristen Grainger
Yeah.
Kimberly Hoffman
that you say to each other?
Kristen Grainger
It’s more like I can’t find you. You know, I can’t find you. I feel like there’s something bothering you or that I want to be able to find you. That’s usually the phrase. And
Dan Wetzel
Not that you’ve ever had to say that.
Kristen Grainger
Only on the golf course.
Kimberly Hoffman
I know where to find him.
Kristen Grainger
Yeah, that’s right. I’m in the sandtrap, he’s on the green. Yes. Anyway, I know.
Kimberly Hoffman
How about for you, Dan, would you add anything to that your communication style with Kristen?
Dan Wetzel
You know, we have some things that are built into our relationship that I think foster a lot of communication. We have these two chairs that we’ve had since we first got together. We call them the Archie and Edith chairs which I’m kind of dating myself. There is all in the family reference, but they sit close to each other with a little table between. We have coffee there every morning to start our day. We eat all our dinners at the kitchen table. And those two times we know, we have built in, it’s time to in the morning, when it’s kind of what do we have in store today? What’s unresolved from yesterday? What’s our plan? What, if any, are any issues, sometimes that’s just a quick check. And sometimes that’s a two hour conversation, if, if there’s something pressing, same with at the dinner table, you know, and then we do a lot of long walks together too and it’s always a chance to both get out and be out in the world and do something physical, but have these long talks. And, and sometimes there’s, it’s obvious what we want to talk about, hey, let’s get back to this. And let’s figure out what we’re gonna do about this. And other times, there’s nothing pressing. So what are you thinking? And then the other one will say, Oh, I’m thinking about this. And that turns into a two hour conversation at a longer walk than we planned. So having those systems in place is something we can really count on. We know we’re not going to go days without a chance to sit down and see what’s going on. And it is always driven by if there is some issue that one of us feels unresolved about or like we need to talk about. We don’t necessarily wait for one of those two moments, either. We’ll just immediately say, Hey, can we can we talk a minute, are you busy? Let’s go to the Archie and Edith chairs, sit down and talk. So I like having those systems in place.
Kimberly Hoffman
Yeah, you create a lot of opportunities to connect with each other. And that’s really important in a relationship.
Matthew Hoffman
Yeah. Good regular communication. And I love the I remember all in the family and
Kimberly Hoffman
same.
Matthew Hoffman
And the show we watched right after that was The Jeffersons right? moving on to the Eastside.
Dan Wetzel
Yeah.
Matthew Hoffman
So yeah, good, good memories. And I love those talking chairs. And so our third C is conflict resolution. And you know, if you’ve been together and been through more than one relationship, you know that no matter what, no matter how sweet and good it is, there’s always conflicts or disagreements. So Dan, I’d love to kind of hear from you first, when conflicts arise, what do you guys do? And how do you approach those and work through it?
Dan Wetzel
Well, it depends on what it is, of course, and so many of our conflicts aren’t necessarily with each other. But it’s something that’s really hard to deal with, it might be an issue with one of our kids or a family member, or a big decision we need to make about a job or the band or something like that. And, it can be hard to talk about. But our first move is always to say, Can we sit down and talk? And that’s the first thing is to talk about it not; Hey, I need 3 hours by myself to get away from me, we never take that approach. Sure, there’s going to be disagreements and things. I kind of have this theory, and I’m not sure. Kristen agrees. But I don’t think couples have a lot of arguments, I think they have one argument over and over and over. And that manifests itself in a whole bunch of different ways. And, and it’s usually just a fear based thing, you know, not a, it’s usually, If you really, really, really knew me, would you still love me? And that’s some deep fear that I think we have inside of us as humans. And even though there’s all this evidence from your partner that of course, sometimes you just need that affirmation, and you need that, that to say it out loud, and hear it out loud one more time. And so, we usually try and get to what’s the core issue here? Because it’s probably not that I bought the wrong peaches at the store or something, it’s probably something underneath that. And I think we’re really good at identifying take, you know, just pausing during the conversation or, or going, Oh, now I realize what I’m actually arguing about. And it isn’t this thing that brought us to the chairs, you know, it’s some other thing that maybe is an old issue or something I brought into the relationship and never figured out how to deal with.
Matthew Hoffman
Sure, so taking the time. What I hear you saying is how you guys take the time to be patient with each other and figure out what’s going on under the surface and try to figure that out and understand.
Dan Wetzel
Yeah, and that patience; Kristen is brilliant at both in her career and in personal relationships with everyone she knows. She can look at any situation and first see that huge picture of it. And then keep that in mind the whole time that she’s dialing down on what the little issue is that’s manifesting itself. She does this when she writes songs, she’ll take a huge topic and then figure out a way to show that in a minute way that everyone can relate to because they’re Everybody feels the impact of that huge topic. And so it’s when you talk about conflict resolution, her having that insight is so helpful. And I’ve learned a lot from that from trying to keep that in mind. What’s the bigger picture here?
Matthew Hoffman
Kristen, what about you? When you look at your relationship? What? How do you handle or deal with conflict as it arises in your relationship with Dan?
Kristen Grainger
Well, I will say we have been fortunate to not have knock on wood anyway, not to have huge problems, big money problems, or other kinds of things that really drive or test couples or drive them apart or anything like that. So far, it’s been pretty easy stuff. But you gotta remember, I come from a family of arguers. Okay, so I grew up in a family of competitors and arguers, and it was, who can win the argument, not? How do we resolve the issue? And it took me a long time to learn how to resolve conflict, without having the there be a victor in the situation, because that is the death I think of intimacy is when you when, there’s has to be someone who wins and someone who loses, and you have to keep score and blame and whatever. And and that’s something that I really have learned from Dan is, is that what are we really arguing about here? And what are we really afraid of here? And maybe it all boils down to, I need reassurance. And then you can move forward with that. You can go forward from there, or you know, your fear of you think I might be a bad parent or somebody else, you have to be the other person, you have to be the person say, wait, wait, okay, so the issue isn’t that you’re a bad parent, the issue is this is a difficult situation. And I believe you are a great parent and just something like that, that you have to have that fundamental, like the Oslo talks, everybody came to the kingdom at the table because they knew the others wanted peace. Everybody was there because they wanted peace. And if you come to that situation, knowing it’s a place of acceptance, and love and trust, then you can really hone in on what are the real underlying problems here that are coming between us? And how can we eradicate this?
Kimberly Hoffman
I think as soon as couples lose sight that they’re on the same team, right? So many of us think that all of a sudden, it’s one against the other. But when we realize, okay, wait, we are on the same team. We can figure this out together and conquer this together. That’s when it clicks.
Matthew Hoffman
Yeah. And we talked about a lot in a relationship and your relationship and ours. So if it’s a win for the US, it’s a win for the relationship, and you both benefit, if it’s win, lose, I won, you lost, the relationship doesn’t win, and it hurts the relationship in that. And I heard what I heard you saying to Kristen, that I want to point out is motive. Like when you’re coming to in the partnership, and you’re coming to a disagreement or conflict or you’re discussing opinions are passionate, What’s your motive, if your motive is to get through it and be supportive, and understand that it’s gonna go great if your motive is to win, or debase or break down, it can get pretty messy and ugly. And what I heard you saying is, your motive is to get through it and understand and that that’s a fantastic motive. So it matters, what you want to achieve and what you’re hoping to get out of it when you come in. And so I appreciate that.
Kimberly Hoffman
In addition to the three pillars that we just talked about, we have 11 More, and we believe that all of these pillars are essential to a successful marriage. But of the 11 remainder. Dan, is there one that resonates with you? Do you have, I’m curious, do you have the pillars in front of you?
Dan Wetzel
Yeah.
Kimberly Hoffman
Okay, perfect.
Dan Wetzel
Right here.
Kimberly Hoffman
Is there one that really stands out to you?
Dan Wetzel
Well, I would agree with you that every single one of them feels important. But in my relationship with Kristen, fun, and humor is such a huge part of of our time together. We are constantly, when we were in the first few years of our marriage, it’s like, why aren’t we writing a sitcom? This is funny. And then we realized, we are writing a sitcom and we’re starring and directing and producing it every day. This is I can’t wait to hear what is going to come out of Kristen’s mouth and I learned early on about her how what her sense of humor was like and how fast your thinking speed was. And so it’s just, we can get into this situation where we’re just bantering with wit as quick as we can and and it just gets funnier and funnier, where we you know, if I’m driving I sometimes I just have to pull over and laugh my head off and but it is such a great part of our life. There’s just not a day that goes by that’s dark and gloomy. And we can always find humor and everything and, and Kristen is very careful not to have a victim in that. She doesn’t make fun of people, but for me, but she’ll she’s just such a fast thinker and a witty person. And, and I love that when I, when I first started dating Kristen, a friend of mine who I’d known for years said, You finally found someone that can keep up with you. And I said, Oh, she’s way ahead of me. And I’m just trying to stay in shape. Because it’s really fun. So
Kimberly Hoffman
That’s great. How about for you, Kristen? Is there a pillar that really resonates with you?
Kristen Grainger
Well, I mean, I love the fun and humor too, because I think that was a huge part of who we are. And as performers and as partners and as friends and and parents. But I also think appreciation is that pillar that resonated with me, because while we have all this compatibility, we have totally different skill sets. And, Dan is always so great about showing appreciation for the things that I do well, and the things that I bring to the relationship. And I tried to do the same for him too. He’s incredibly creative and talented and makes guitars and all kinds of musical instruments in our basement, beautiful instruments. And he can fix anything or build anything. He was a professional contractor for years. And so, I don’t have any ability in that way. I also appreciate that he is a great athlete, he’s a great parent. He’s a great husband. And I want to demonstrate that I appreciate that when I see him. It’s all about that being seen thing, that’s an important part. What keeps us in the bubble is knowing the other person knows us the good things in the bad things and appreciates who we are in the world and can show that appreciation. And that I think is key to intimacy, is key that all of these other things is knowing that they appreciate all of the good things that I that the other person is and also the challenges that we all face that they appreciate that you’re doing the best you can all the time.
Kimberly Hoffman
Yeah, showing that. That kind of gratitude towards each other in appreciation for each other, is really impactful in a relationship because it makes you feel seen and heard and safe. And it does so much good for your relationship.
Matthew Hoffman
I’ve never heard anybody say, Gosh, my spouse appreciates me way too much. They see too many good things about me, right? I mean.
Kristen Grainger
It’s more like he ran out of superlatives. Right? That’s the main problem.
Matthew Hoffman
That’s right. studying and working on the words. Well, Kim and I are also big proponents of a concept that we call overflow thinking. And we firmly believe that the strength of your number one relationship, your romantic relationship really is the center and source of everything else in your life. And that goodness can flow out into everything else you do. So I’d love to hear each of you talk about Kristen, maybe you’d start with, how do you see the goodness of your relationship with Dan overflow into other parts of your life?
Kristen Grainger
The thing that pops to my mind first is music. So a lot of people, including my mom and other intimate members of my family, remarked that onstage, we demonstrate a lot of love and appreciation for each other without saying anything. And we don’t even realize we do it. That there’s obviously a very deep connection between us that is the result of appreciating each other and being continuously in awe of the other one. And that is reflected in how we engage with each other, how we look at each other, how we talk to each other, and how we talk about each other during musical performances. I also think music is a super intimate thing to do. And it can be hard. A lot of couples are where there’s two musicians, they’re not they’re not they’ll perform together or they don’t perform the same kind of music. And there’s this, like, who’s doing better in their career thing and we don’t have any of that we don’t have any of that is everything we do is to build up with the other person. And we have different skill sets in the music situation but they’re very compatible and that comes across when we perform the music and the number of what we’ve built over the years musically and then we’re fans we have and the albums we make and bookings we get. It is a reflection of the joy people see and how we and how we are together and that they feel and want to be around. They want to be around that. That good feeling, that loving feeling?
Matthew Hoffman
Beautiful. That’s a great example. How about you Dan? How do you see the goodness of your relationship overflow into other areas of your life?
Dan Wetzel
Well, I would, I would definitely agree with everything Kristen just said, music is probably the most obvious and biggest example of that, but also things I’ve learned in our relationship have changed how I deal with other people in my life. Kristen’s ability to look at every person and really see them and figure out what is good for this person? What does this person need? Whether she’s picking out a gift for them, or just wants to make them something or give them a book or something, and because of this approach, she has friends she’s had for 40 years that she still nurtures those relationships and knows how to maintain them. And I didn’t really have that skill set, when I met her. I was a typical guy, I guess. So yeah, I used to know that guy in college, but I don’t know where he is now, or, and there were a few relationships I held close. But I’ve learned so much from this relationship about how to nurture a relationship and maintain it, and how to really focus on where somebody is in their life and what might be not helpful but you know, positive for them to receive from me or from us. And I’ve found that, that has changed my relationships with lots of people because of my relationship with Kristen.
Kristen Grainger
Another thing I’d add is that we don’t realize how we come across to other people until things like what people say about our music, but also, young couples, say, we want to be you guys. We want to be like you and our children. Our daughter picked someone that she thought was going to be the person that would help her become the best version of herself. I mean, that’s the biggest compliment. And the biggest rap affirmation is to have new couples or young couples or newlyweds say, so we want to be like you guys, when we grow up. This is what we want for ourselves.
Kristen Grainger
It’s infectious. That’s great role modeling, and what a gift you’ve given to your family, especially in that regard. Dan, if you had to go back and give yourself your unmarried self, a piece of advice, what would you say to yourself?
Dan Wetzel
Well, luckily, I took this advice. And I almost didn’t, but it would be to hold out and wait for the right person to really be selfish when picking a partner. And I know so many people who settled for whoever was available at the time or checked some of the boxes. So it seemed okay. Or and it’s just not loveless necessarily, but not thrilling. And, and, you know, I had the training wheel relationship that I outgrew and then was alone for quite a few years and and kind of had resigned myself to you know, maybe that’s okay, maybe I’ll, I’ll I’ll be single from now on. And then I met Kristen and was at first a little wary of not knowing if I want to get back into a marriage. But as I started to really examine what our relationship was, it was everything I ever wanted, and has far surpassed that since. So I would say that to my young self, I say that to people I know now who are searching and maybe starting to feel desperate in a search for a partner is to just hold out and be picky and wait for the right person. And sometimes that means not looking harder. It means just being yourself more and letting these people come across your path. Because I think there’s a desperation that you wear, especially men wear across our face, like a blinking light, like I’m desperate for a partner, are you the one and you know, that’s going to make anybody kind of back off. And if you quit looking and really just work on who you are and being comfortable with yourself is when someone amazing comes along and recognizes that.
Kimberly Hoffman
And I think it’s out of desperation that we really don’t see some of those things. Those qualities in people are probably things that we should avoid. People we probably should stay away from because that desperation just sort of takes over and says, Oh, it’s just that one little thing. Or it’s just those couple little things because it only as you know when you are together over time, it only enhances and only becomes a much bigger thing. How about for you Kristen, if you had to go back and give your unmarried self a piece of advice. What would you say to yourself?
Kristen Grainger
Just because everyone’s getting married, doesn’t mean you should get married. And just because someone asks you to marry them, doesn’t mean you need to say, Yes. I got married too young, I was just I was just, I was too young and stupid to know better. And I guess what I would say is that it’s the long lines of Dan holding out for the right one. But also don’t think that marriage is something you have to do, or you need to do and you need to do when you’re 25, I was actually 22. So it is something that you should really, really want and know is the right thing before you dive in. And it just, you know, we get all caught up in this period of time like that, those liminal years between when you graduate from college and, and turn 30. And suddenly everyone’s getting married and having kids and there’s suddenly this big pressure and your parents are starting to go well, so are you thinking about getting married anytime soon? Anyway, just not to not to live someone else’s life, but to live your own?
Kimberly Hoffman
I hear you say you have the courage to say no.
Kristen Grainger
Right.
Kimberly Hoffman
If you feel it.
Kristen Grainger
Exactly.
Matthew Hoffman
So you guys have been so gracious with your time and open and honest, we are grateful for our time together. If people want to learn more about you, and what you do and your work and your art, where can they find you? And where should they look?
Kristen Grainger
Well, you can listen to Kristen Granger and True North on Spotify, or anyplace you download music or anyplace you stream music. We also have a website, of course, “truenorthband.com” It’s got our lots of tracks and biographical information and videos and all kinds of stuff about us on that along with our schedule.
Kimberly Hoffman
Thank you both so much. You have such a healthy, beautiful relationship. And we’re so grateful that you are willing to share a lot of pearls with our listeners today, thank you.
Matthew Hoffman
And I have Thank you. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you.
Dan Wetzel
Oh, just thanks for having us.
Matthew Hoffman
Our pleasure. It’s our pleasure. So I do have a question for you guys. I see this little instrument behind you. And I’m sure there’s probably something else within reach and I’m not asking for performance. I don’t want you to sing a song because I know that’s not appropriate, but would you guys mind sharing a riff, a sentence. Anything at all from any of your music just for us to get a flavor?
Kristen Grainger
Sure.
Dan Wetzel
Sure.
Kristen Grainger
I mean
Matthew Hoffman
Is that unacceptable? You’re crazy. Absolutely. No, I see that’s why I can say it can be edited out because you know I don’t want to go oh my gosh, that guy was crazy. Why did he do that?
Kristen Grainger
So you can I mean you can see if you turn this a little bit you can see all those instruments. So Dan built all of those instruments right there. And he built this one right here , this is my tenor ukulele and and then he plays guitar, he plays banjo , he plays anything basically with strings he can also build.
Kristen Grainger
Okay.
Dan Wetzel
We can just do like a verse in a chorus or something.
Kimberly Hoffman
There you go.
Matthew Hoffman
We want everybody, even if they don’t go to Spotify we will have a sample of some of your greatness.
Kristen Grainger
Okay, happy too.
Kristen Grainger
You are the writer, You are the hard place. You are the slow burn and the quickest about your character separates content but the gardener your sweet pays back. You are the profit, you know the exception always brew shadows my confidence suite pays me straight smash the chin. Stay streaming video. Going out roll for now and I should be alright.
Kristen Grainger
Yeah.
Kristen Grainger
Is that enough?
Matthew Hoffman
Beautiful. Thank you.
Matthew Hoffman
I wish I had the clapping.
Kimberly Hoffman
I know, right?
Matthew Hoffman
Thank you so much for that.
Kristen Grainger
You’re welcome.
Dan Wetzel
Of course.
Kristen Grainger
Okay.
Dan Wetzel
Okay.
Matthew Hoffman
Thank you so much for allowing us to spend time together with so many beautiful things about the two of you, and we can’t wait to share them with our audience. So
Kristen Grainger
Such a pleasure to meet you both. Thanks for doing this.
Matthew Hoffman
We will connect again soon. Thank you.
Kristen Grainger
Thanks. See you later.
Matthew Hoffman
Bye.