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Kickass Couples Podcast

Conflict Free Communication – How to Say Anything to Your Partner Ep. 58 Jenny and Chris Swisher

By July 7, 2022September 7th, 2022No Comments



relationship, jenny, kickass, marriage, growing, chris, parents, conflict, hear, children, life, couples, years, mom, feel, support, moment, swisher, talk, love


Kimberly Hoffman, Jenny Swisher, Chris Swisher, Matthew Hoffman

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Matthew Hoffman 00:02

Welcome to the Kickass Couples Podcast. This is the place where we help many couples who want to level up their marriage experience newfound clarity, hope and confidence. We’re Matthew and Kim, co-hosts and husband and wife.

Kimberly Hoffman 00:16
in 26 years together, we’ve seen a lot and never thought it could be as good as it is right now.

We’re here to help you successfully navigate the messy, dirty and wonderful world of marriage.

Matthew Hoffman 00:28

We believe all couples deserve and are capable of experiencing an extraordinary and fulfilling marriage. And each week we’re bringing you life lessons from real life successful couples to help you grow and strengthen your relationship.

Kimberly Hoffman 00:43

We’ll get started right after this message. We’ll get started right after this message. If you want to learn how to experience the best, most fulfilling year of your marriage, we invite you to order Matthew’s new book, “Kickass Husband: Winning at Life, Marriage and Sex.†You can get it at or visit Matthew’s website, Again, that’s or And now back to the show.

Matthew Hoffman 01:18

We’re excited to be joined today by Kickass couple Jenny and Chris Swisher. Jenny is a certified personal trainer and fitness nutrition specialist. After years of struggling with her hormones she learned how to live in alignment with her body and created a personal brand, Jenny Swisher LLC, teaching other women how to manage their hormones so they can maximize their energy and be their best for themselves and the ones they love. Chris is a former high school science teacher whose passion is also fitness. They met fell in love and married and are the proud parents of two beautiful daughters. Chris joins Jenny as CTO and CFO. And together they work at building Jenny’s line of digital products, courses and podcast. Welcome back, everybody to the Kickass Couples Podcast. We are so excited to have a fun couple. Chris and Jenny Swisher joining us today on the podcast. We were actually introduced by Maisie. So Maisie with Brand Builders Group and Elyse Archer are two people that we worked with in developing our podcast. So we call them the godmothers or maybe the what’s the midwives, they helped birth, that Kickass Couples Podcast. So I’m glad that Maisie brought us together. So shout out to Maisie and Brand Builders Group. But I love to welcome you guys. And we’re so glad that you’re here. We’re going to ask a lot of fun questions today. And we want you both to answer. And so we always like to start off our podcast with what makes you guys a Kickass couple.

Jenny Swisher 02:58

Well, first of all, thank you so much for having us on here today. It’s been great crossing paths with you. And we’re excited to be here. So we’ll give you as candid of answers as we can. When it comes to being a Kickass couple, I guess I would have to say, for us, it’s always been about how we can support the other one, and how we can really grow together through our relationship. We got married really young at the age of 22. And about a month out of college. We were high school sweethearts, and we spent our college years separate. So we went to different universities and kind of did our own thing. He was in college athletics. And I was at a small university about four hours away. So we did still see each other, but we definitely had our own lives. And people will often say like, how did you make it happen, like all the way from high school through college, and I tell them, I think we really sort of got lucky at that phase of our life with growing together, like just being really open in our communication and being always supportive of the other one and the other one’s dreams. And that carried through to marriage as well. So I would have to say that.

Chris Swisher 04:03

And I think I’ll add, I think it’s always been about support and realizing that one person’s dreams is really both of our dreams. And no matter what phase of life we’ve gone through, whether it be a job change, or career change, we’ve always supported that person 100%

Kimberly Hoffman 04:22
I love that that’s a beautiful picture. Actually,

Matthew Hoffman 04:24
it is one of support, it’s critical.

Jenny Swisher 04:28

And we’ve had different phases, you know, I mean, he he competed collegiately as a runner. And then when we graduated and got married, he continued that endeavor for a while. So for the first two or three years of our marriage, he was we were traveling all over the country for him to compete and road races and track meets and all kinds of things at the professional level. And so it took a little bit of sacrifice, right and give and take from a relationship perspective. And then I went through some health issues shortly thereafter with migraine headaches and whatnot. And so having him support through that, and then eventually through my entrepreneurship and my, my business ideas, where it feels like we’re just constantly sort of trading like, okay, whose dream Are we pursuing right now? And how can we keep each other support it and grow through it and communicate through it? And yeah, stay connected.

Kimberly Hoffman 05:17

Love it. I would love to talk a little bit about your histories, because I really believe that we are a product of the people who raised us. Some cases that might have been a traumatic upbringing, maybe not so gentle, and other cases. It’s just a great, wonderful childhood. And so for all of us, it’s different. But whatever it is, we bring it to that next relationship. So I’m curious, Chris, what did love look like growing up? For you?

Chris Swisher 05:53

Yeah, I mean, for me, I don’t think I ever really questioned my parents love. They were also high school sweethearts, as well. But I don’t know if I ever really saw them truly affectionate with one another. I had a younger brother that I grew up with. But I will say, no matter what they were there for everything. Like they always showed up. They were both in education. So they were at every single track meet basketball game, you name it, they were there. So I felt like you felt that love through the support that they showed. But I don’t think you didn’t necessarily see them. Cuddling or hugging or kissing, things like that. But you always knew that they were committed to one another. We never really had arguments or anything like that. I will say, from a confrontation standpoint, with my parents, we were a family of keep it in, hold it in, deal with it on your own terms, and bottle it up. So it was growing up with Jenny’s family, seeing a different family and how they communicated communicate. It was it was just a paradigm shift shift that we went through.

Jenny Swisher 07:07

Yeah, I think it was probably what has been one of our biggest struggles has been how to be openly communicative, whether it’s good or bad, right? Whether the conversation is, you know, an argument or not. So his parents are near and dear to my heart. His mom was actually my sixth grade teacher. So we did grew up together in a small town, Indiana. But I don’t think we’ve talked about this a lot. Like I don’t remember seeing them super affectionate with it. But yet they were always committed to one another. There wasn’t a lot of arguments, not a lot of confrontation. So it’s something that we’ve had to work through for sure. From a marital perspective is how to how to deal with that conflict and how to, you know, confront issues when they come up.

Kimberly Hoffman 07:51

Sure, because that definitely comes into play. When you meet your significant other and you had love, you knew there was love, but you didn’t see it expressed and so it wasn’t modeled for you. And when it’s not modeled for you, it’s really hard to bring that to the next relationship and to express that. So that’s kind of what I hear you saying, Chris?

Chris Swisher 08:14

Yeah. And I kind of feel like that’s something that you yearn for. Like, like, in my relationships, I really, like if you go through like the love languages, like I’m literally a physical physical touch love language.

Jenny Swisher 08:28

Yeah, he’s, it’s like he craves almost what he didn’t experience, you know what I mean? And I see that as well. For me, for me, it’s acts of service and words of affirmation and feeling that sort of reassurance and, and that was something that was probably lacking in what I grew up into. So it’s interesting how that works.

Kimberly Hoffman 08:46
But tell me a little bit how love was expressed in your family when you were growing up, Jenny?


Jenny Swisher 08:49

So my parents had been married for over 30 years. And they were sort of the opposite end of the spectrum, I can remember my parents being very physically affectionate. My mom and I would sort of barter for time on my dad’s lap, when I was a young child. And they had a very faith based face centered relationships. So I can remember seeing them, you know, hold hands in church and pray together and really treated their relationship first. They did a lot of things. The two of them, they had, you know, NFL season tickets, so it was like, Don’t bother them on Sundays. That’s Mom and Dad’s Day, you know, they were going to go do their thing. So I feel like I grew up in an environment where there was total commitment, total trust, total affection. I did go through a little bit of what you could consider to be trauma in my early, I guess, early teens around the age of 12. My dad was diagnosed with cancer and was given two weeks to live sort of a very sudden thing that happened. And so in that phase of my life, I had to grow up fast. I sort of became almost like a motherly figure for my brother who was four years younger than me and my My mom and dad went on to pursue a lot of health, you know, health issues at that time, they ended up moving to Seattle, and he had a bone marrow transplant. And we lived with grandparents. And we’re kind of shuffled around for a period of time so that they could prioritize his health. Thankfully, he’s still with us today, he walked me down the aisle and is still with us today and whatnot. But it was a very sort of traumatic time. And we were actually not dating at the time, because we were really young, but we were friends at the time. So he sort of lived through that experience with me as well. But I grew up around, you know, a very, I would say, strong relationship and very outwardly. So

Matthew Hoffman 10:38

that’s great, well, I appreciate helps understand where we come from, and what we bring. And it kind of leads naturally, into what we call the three C’s, we have 14 pillars in our platform. And we think all 14 qualities are important and really have to be present and demonstrated in any successful relationship. But we kind of focus on the three C’s, because we think they’re foundational, and the first of those C’s is commitment. And so Chris, I’d love to ask, what does commitment look like to you in your relationship with Jenny?

Jenny Swisher 11:10

For me, commitment is really just going alongside Jenny, through our journey of marriage and being there. And as we went through the different from the beginning. As we went through the different phases, or different chapters of our marriage, like Jenny was saying, during our story, kind of we switched off, who was will say, pursuing their dream. And no matter what it was always, we always shared that dream with the other person. And we’re always committed to moving forward together and supporting each other, and figuring out our way through that. And so I think that for me, it’s always comes back to support never saying no, never saying, Hey, we can’t do that. It’s always we’re gonna find a way to make this work. We’re going to find a way

to make make it successful, and still love each other all the way through this. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree with that. I mean, I think, you know, we said support in the beginning was probably what makes us work? And what makes us happy? And, you know, before before children, right, it was all about, like, what are the different things that you feel, you know, what is your purpose, like, outside of our marriage or outside of whatever, like, Who are you and what, you know, who are you called to serve and, and it’s changed over the years, like, he’s had multiple job changes, I’ve, you know, left the corporate world for doing more entrepreneurship type stuff, and we’ve had health issues arise. And we’ve had different different, you know, obviously, every couple goes through different things. But through it all, I think commitment is like, this unwavering. I like to say all in right, when I talk to women about health and fitness commitment is being all in, it’s it’s making that vow that no matter what happens, good or bad, you’re going to stick to it, and you’re gonna work through it. Right.

Kimberly Hoffman 13:04

I love hearing that. And it’s a great segue into commitment next. Communication, right? I feel like communication is a real Biggie in our relationships, how we communicate, when we make time to communicate. So I’m curious, Jenny, what does communication look like in your relationship with Chris, you’re busy, you have a job, you have young children, you’re you’re in the middle, I like to say in the thick of it all right now. So how do you the two of you find time to really communicate with one another?

Jenny Swisher 13:38

Yeah, so we were just joking about this last night, actually, because right now we have a one year old and a five year old. And so very much of our life, including our sleep, revolves around our children and what they’re up to. And so it’s not quite what it was. We were we were actually married for 10 years before children. So you know, prior to children, we were we traveled together, we had, you know, five nights a week or date night, you know, like we were together all the time. And then with children, things shifted, especially coming out of the pandemic in the last couple of years of really feeling like we’ve been at home quite a bit since 2020, and really focused on our family. And we’ve had to make intentional efforts to stay openly communicative. We joke around that the giffy is on your phone, right? Like little gifts. These are our life sometimes like when he’s putting the baby down for a nap and I’m working or I’m picking my daughter up from preschool or whatever, like to get a little text message from him with some sort of sarcastic gift, or something that just sort of lightens the mood and touches you know, we talked about touch points, touching the other person at some point throughout the day, whether that’s physically or through text or through the phone. That’s one way that we do it but also we really value our evenings. I know for us like sometimes we joke around and we have like a little countdown clock like we love our children dearly. But we also really love bedtime. Because bedtime means that we get to kind of come back together. And whether that’s watching a movie or sharing a bottle of wine or just talking, you know, and having the TV off and just talking about our day or whatever. I think that’s been really key comes back to that what we talked about earlier, growing together and growing together doesn’t happen if you’re not talking, you know, there’s very many evenings, there are not very many evenings where we’re not talking, you know, I mean, sometimes, of course, it’s nice to just say, you know, I just need a show tonight, like, let’s just watch TV show and just sit here. But then I would say most of the time, that doesn’t mean that we end up hitting the pause button a million times, because oh, I wanted to tell you what happened today, or oh, I wanted to tell you this or that. So yeah,

Chris Swisher 15:41

I feel like our evenings are kind of the time for us to debrief with one another and catch each other up on what happened throughout the day. Because if not, it’s usually just a quick text text message of what happened. And so we ended up not really sitting down to turn off until I don’t even know whether 11:30 Sometimes,

Jenny Swisher 16:00
yeah, I’m a night owl. So I’ve made him a night owl by association. So we girls go to bed at 80.

And then: 8:30 we get that three hour window of just whatever we want to do, you know.

Kimberly Hoffman 16:12

So I hear you saying you make time to connect in the evenings. And that that, that time is really valuable to both of you. It’s important to it’s a recharge time. And I think so many of our listeners are right where you are in life. And they can really relate to that. So I love hearing that you are intentional about doing this.

Matthew Hoffman 16:33

When it comes to creating a Kickass marriage, do you ever wonder what you could be doing better? Have you ever thought how helpful it would be to be a part of a like-minded community of other imperfect couples who want to level up their number one relationship? Come visit Kickass Couples Nation, where you can talk with people just like you who are looking for ways to invest in and increase their joy, commitment and fulfillment and their most important human relationship. You’ll have access to a team of licensed marriage therapists, coaches, articles, podcasts, live webinars and more. Just visit so you can learn more about a community that’s ready to help you level up. That’s Yeah, you gotta sometimes it’s got to be scheduled. We’re going to talk now. And, you know, I always used to get when Kim would come to me and our relationships are going to talk to you about something I go, Oh, no, it was deer in the headlights because I thought oh, I messed up, she’s angry, something’s gonna happen. And I would get really nervous. And she said, No, we’ll talk later. It’s not a good time now. And that would kill me. Because I didn’t have the confidence and faith to know, you know what talking is normal. And, and we’re going to have that time together. It’s great. And, you know, communication, so naturally leads into our third C, which is conflict resolution. And I know every relationship yours, ours and everyone we’ve ever spoken to. There’s always conflicts that come up. And so I’m curious, Jenny, if you don’t mind taking this one first, how what does conflict resolution look like in your relationship with Chris? How do you guys tackle, when there’s a point of difference in how you guys see your view things? Or how you should be going forward?

Jenny Swisher 18:24

Yeah, so the first thing I would say is that our I think our personalities really complement one another. In a way that’s like, I’m very, I’m a decision maker. I like the bullet points. I’m very outgoing. As far as personality, I like to talk. He is much more sort of introverted, he likes to just sort of sit and listen. He’s also he’s also just so relaxed, that he balances out my, my crazy sometimes. And so I think that helps us. I don’t I don’t I can’t think of a time that we have collided in such a way that was detrimental to our overall relationship. I think that we just, you know, we have that working in our advantage. However, that does, that’s not to say that we don’t have conflict. I mean, there are definitely times where things come up. And I think a recurring theme for us, has been, you know, almost like those two personality traits are so polar opposite that sometimes that can be the cause of the conflict as well, because sometimes it’s like, I just want you to make the decision. Like please, just one time, like, please make the decision. And meanwhile, there are times where he’s like, I just want you to relax, like, why are you why are you so tight? So I think for us, like, conflict resolution has to really boil down to like, first of all, if we’re too angry with the other one, it’s okay. I remember getting advice when we got married, like never go to bed upset and are never going to go to bed. upset with the other one. And I remember thinking like, Oh, that makes sense. But now that I know that we’ve been married for 16 years, I’m like, sometimes it’s better to go to bed a little upset, because sometimes we wake up in the morning and it’s like, okay, well, that was really silly, you know, like, No, I have a fresh perspective, and I have a good night’s sleep. And now it’s like, I’m really sorry about what happened last night, because that was just off, you know, that was really odd. But I think for us, it’s a matter of me communicating to him a lot of times what I need him to do, like, I need you to make the decision here, or I need you to, I know you that you’re very relaxed about this, I need you to not be I need you to care. And I need you to like, pull forward some, you know, some thoughts. And then sometimes it’s the opposite for him to like, he’s, he has to ask me to sort of level out as well. So I think just keeping that communication open, we also have some sort of like code phrases that we use in our relationship, which is sort of an inside joke. But anytime that we are dealing with like a stressful situation, which can cause us to then be stressful with one another. We have some code phrases like we have recently, our parents moved close by. And while we love having that, we also sometimes feel like we have six children, because our parents are aging, and we’re kind of going through this interesting time of life where we have small children, but then we also are helping care for our parents. And those can be really stressful situations that we find ourselves in conflict about. And so when that happens, we have this sort of code phrase, where if we’re, if we’re together for like a holiday experience or something, and we can feel the tensions rising, he’ll be like, your butt looks really great today. And it’s just this, like saying that we’ll just break the ice, you know, and it just it just literally, you’re here you are like, here we are at Easter Sunday. And we’re like, we had predicted everything our parents were going to say or complain about or mention, you know, we had talked about it in advance with a very sarcastic way of let’s make a checklist of all the things we’re going to hear about, like our gutters clean, or, you know, are we going to hire someone for mulch this year? All these questions that our parents seem to ask now that they live close by. And so we made light of it, you know, it was like, we know, this is gonna be a stressful situation, like, let’s go into it, like with a sense of humor. And a long time ago, we had a couple that we kind of consider to be a mentor for us and our relationship mentor, say, you know, in those moments, break the ice a little bit and say something like, Wow, your bet looks great today. And it’s fun. It’s silly to say out loud, but it’s like sometimes in that moment, you’re like, that’s exactly what I need. It was just this sort of light hearted moment.

Kimberly Hoffman 22:22

I think it’s great that you brought that into relationship. And I love that you shared that. Because when we bring humor into a stressful situation, even in the midst of arguing, it just changes the total perspective. And it really does lighten the moment. And we have one friend that even said that. Sometimes they’ll be getting into it, like really getting into it. And then they’re like, Okay, the rule is when that happens, we have to take off all our clothes, we have to fight make it just make sense. And then they’re they just spend so much time laughing at each other that they totally forgot what they were arguing about.

Matthew Hoffman 23:02 He calls it strip fighting.

Jenny Swisher 23:05
That’s a great concept. Yeah. So

Matthew Hoffman 23:06

maybe you guys want to try that out? Chris. Maybe. I love it. So Jenny. So you’re saying there’s code words that you use, which I think is great breaks, it breaks the mesmerism that can kind of we can become fixated on lightens the mood a little bit. What about for you, Chris? What and of we can become fixated on lightens the mood a little bit. What about for you, Chris? What and when kind of conflict occurs? What do you how do you see yourself handling it? Or do you see Jenny doing to change?

Chris Swisher 23:32

For me, it’s kind of stepping outside of my comfort zone, like like being raised in a family that didn’t really share their conflict or air their dirty laundry outwardly. My first intention, and my first thought is a follow it up and just deal with it on my own time. And so for me, it’s taken growth to really say, to come out word and say, hey, look, or share what’s going on what’s the issue, because that’s not really natural for me. And on the opposite of that, it’s like genuine saying, it’s kind of like, hey, look, maybe this isn’t as big a deal as it may be. There for our relationship throughout. We really haven’t had a lot of major conflicts with one another. I think we’ve really walked through a lot of conflicts together as a couple of things that have happened to us. Maybe job changes or or work environment things that that really we’ve really kind of walked through it as a unit and she’s kind of brought the the mama bear aspect of it because I mean, I feel like when you get on her side, there are many hills that Jenny Swisher will die on. She will go to the nth degree to make sure you’re you know that it for me. It’s like oh, you know, it’s probably not that big a deal. I’ll just let this one go.

Jenny Swisher 24:56

Yeah. Well, I think his natural reaction to conflict is to say, okay, like, or he’s very quick to say I’m sorry. And that’s one thing that we’ve we’ve definitely we I feel like we’ve addressed so many times in our relationship is, I’ll say to him, I don’t want to, I don’t want you to be sorry. Like, there shouldn’t be, you shouldn’t have to say, sorry, you shouldn’t have to bottle it up, like, we should be able to communicate. And you should be able to tell me like, how you actually feel right. And so what he’s, I think what you’re referring to is like the hills all die on right, I’m a nutritionist, this is an example. I’m a nutritionist, and I’m very passionate about healthy food. And so for me, it’s like, that’s a hill I will die on right is like, making sure that my kids are eating healthy foods, making sure that they’re educated about healthy food. And for him, that’s like, not a hill that he’s necessarily willing to die on. But he wants to be supportive of the way I feel about it. So it’s something that we have approached, you know, together, like with our kids, like we’ve had to be on the same page, it’s like, this is the way our family eats, this is the way that we address food in our house. And sometimes it really is a matter of one of us saying like, you know, it’s not that important to me. So whatever it is you think we should do, I’m gonna roll with it. But then other times where we both do have an opinion, I think our struggle has been with you being willing to not just say, okay, whatever you say and internalize it, but instead to say like, no, actually, this is the way I really feel about it. And I know that when he does do that, that he really does, you know, have those deep, deep feelings about something and I need to listen. So I think we’ve we’ve worked through a lot, I think it’s the biggest issue of, you know, I’m sorry, or me being the more opinionated one has really shifted over the last five years or so since having children, because so many decisions are now made based on not just what our children experience, but what they see and what they see with us. So, you know, especially having two girls, you know, I very early on, I was like, I don’t want the two girls like being raised with a dad, that’s like always saying I’m sorry, or who’s always just, you know, letting mom control the situation. So being able to kind of get off my high horse at times and say, you know, Dad’s making a decision here. And this is the way it is like being okay with that. And that sort of give and take.

Matthew Hoffman 27:13

I love to hear that. Because it sounds like you guys have learned the art of compromise. And you’re willing to give each other what they need to be successful in the moment. And that means if you’re doing that for them, then it’s happening for the relationship. And I think, you know, it’s not my way or your way it’s not there’s no winning, right? A marriage is not about I won, you lost marriage is about the relationship when and when you’re each willing to give up, have self for the other person and get what they need. That’s not nec, that’s not a loss, it’s a gain. And it sounds like you all have, it’s different for each of you, which is always usually true in most relationships, right? It’s not the same, because we’re not the same people. And so I love hearing that you guys have learned and and played around that dance and realize, hey, I need to be willing to give so that they can win, which is great. And

Kimberly Hoffman 28:05

I think Chris, I hear you say that you’re willing to learn how to communicate what you need better. And that has a lot to do with being vulnerable. Right? And that’s not easy. It’s not wasn’t modeled for you, it’s not comfortable for you. And so you’ve learned how to become vulnerable with, hey, look, this is what I need. I think that’s an important lesson as well.

Chris Swisher 28:27
Yeah, I feel like it’s a lot of times you’re just kind of stepping out on a limb, especially the first

time you share that stuff. Yeah, it’s very scary.

Kimberly Hoffman 28:33 Scary. Yeah, not sure to

Jenny Swisher 28:36

go ahead. Yes, since we’ve been since we’ve been married, I would say he has gotten like, I’ve seen so much growth there just from both of our perspectives, like me being willing to sort of, you know, listen, and not just always be in control of an opinion. And for you to also step up and give yours. But it’s interesting, because we’ve had some, like I mentioned before, like with our parents living nearby, we’ve had conflict there. And so, boundaries and things like that, that we’ve had to work through. But it’s interesting, because in that, especially in the last couple of years, I’ve seen him engage in a conversation with his parents bringing to light like almost confronting an issue that I’m like, he would have never done that, like 10 years ago. You know what I mean? Like he’s, he’s now much more, I think self aware of when there’s something stirring, that everybody’s just kind of bottling up and so he’ll just outwardly say like, are you upset that we didn’t XYZ or can you tell me what you’re upset about? And it’s sometimes like, you know, you’re up against a rock and a hard place sometimes, but just seeing him do that is like, whoa, like, that’s huge, because I know when we were first dating, there was one experience in particular where he picked me up for a date. And my mom and I had been just butting heads and my mom and I are both like very similar, like very strong personality females. And I remember he picked us pick me up from the for the date, and he was like, deer in headlights, like it was like, Oh my gosh, like, you’re arguing with your mom like that. And I was like, Yeah, because we just didn’t see eye to eye on something. And we had to hash like, we had to just get through it. Like we had to talk it through. And he had never been part of that sort of confrontation or experience and his family. And I remember going on that date. And like he just he he like kept talking about I was mortified. I was so what was so bad that you had to argue over and I’m like, I don’t even know now. Like it was just something we had to work through. And it was confrontation was so part of how I was raised, healthy confrontation, I should say. And so not part of how he was raised that we started to experience those differences, even just in our dating before marriage. So seeing him now like, just a couple weeks ago saying like, Hey, I sent some tension. Can you know, can you tell me what’s going on or how you’re feeling like with his own parents as a as a huge step,

Kimberly Hoffman 30:53

That’s been some good growth there? It sounds like, well, of the 14 pillars that we talked about earlier. We just really discussed the first three, the ones that we believe are really key, you have a list, I think in front of you of all 14. So there’s 11 more. And I’m curious, I’d love to know, Chris, from you, which one of the remaining 11 resonates most with you? And why does it resonate with you? I’m thinking and Jenny, if while he’s thinking there’s one that just pops right out at you. You’re welcome to take it. Oh, gosh,

Jenny Swisher 31:45

it’s always hard to pick one. You know, it is there’s a reason there are 14, right? So I mean, for me, I would say it would be a tie between trust and intimacy, like creating those intentional moments. Whether it’s physical intimacy, or emotional intimacy, intentionally making that happened, right, whether it’s like notes and a lunchbox or a post it note on the mirror, or instead of me texting to see how he’s doing, like, you know, leaving my office and going and giving him a hug and seeing how he’s doing like making those small, intentional efforts of intimacy would probably rate it up high for me. But again, without trust in a relationship, I feel like that that almost has to be most important because everything else falters without trust. So those would be my you asked for one. I did my best.

Kimberly Hoffman 32:36
That’s okay. I love that. I think that those hearing you make say that you’re making deposits

into that emotional bank account. That’s huge. I think that’s great for our listeners to hear

Chris Swisher 32:48 about. Me. It’s good. Yeah.

Kimberly Hoffman 32:50
You found one. Go ahead. I’d love to hear.

Chris Swisher 32:53

I think for me, it’s kind of like appreciation. I mean, I think I think a lot of what we do what couples do, on a day to day basis, I don’t know if we really realize the magnitude and the deposits they make the things that we do for each other. I mean, with our first child, Ginny, basically was a stay at home mom, while trying to build an online business at the same time. And I feel like I never really saw the struggles and triumphs that she went through. Because I wasn’t there 24 Is that and I don’t know if I really appreciated everything that she really went through. And I’m the roles have kind of switched and I’m more of the stay at home parent with our second child. And like, like, man, they’re there. There’s some really tough heights. And I think she’s like, Hey, I’ve been there and I’ve done that. And then like I feel like we can share in that moment. Like the struggles that we both went through even though they were at different times and how we mean for me I have a newfound appreciation for for everything that she went through.

Jenny Swisher 33:56

Yeah, I was thinking about when you asked about what makes us kick axe kick ass couple at the beginning I was thinking about like the one thing that the one small thing that I think we do every day like multiple times throughout the day is that we’re constantly saying thank you like thank you for doing those dishes by the way like that’s thank you for doing that and it’s not always you know acts of service but it can be you know, Thanks for Thanks for handling handling our five year old when she had the meltdown or thanks for you know how I saw you made my coffee like the little things right like Oh, thank you for brewing my coffee without me even asking like little things throughout the day and sometimes it’s funny because we’ve started to notice we have a 16 month old like I mentioned before, so she only has like maybe seven words at this point right? It’s like hi bye mama data. And one of her phrases is thank you so it’s interesting because I remember the first time she did it you know little babies they go they do like the syllables first. And she she would you hand it or something she would go and now it’s Thank you, you know and it’s like she hears us say that I think so much throughout the day throughout the House and our five year old to that she’s just of course it would be one of her first words. So I love that you said appreciation.

Kimberly Hoffman 35:06
Yeah, that appreciation and gratitude goes a long way in our relationship. And it really does

reaffirm, I believe our commitment to each other. So it all goes hand in hand, no doubt.

Matthew Hoffman 35:19

I love to hear what you what you value. And I think it kind of goes into Kim and I really subscribe to an idea. That’s called spillover thinking. And we think that our relationship and the goodness of it and the strength spills over into so many other areas of our life, and that our relationships are the center of our life, and that we focus on this because it has so much good. And so I’d love to hear from each of you, how have you seen the goodness of your relationship, your success together, spill over into other areas of your life? You will take me

Chris Swisher 35:56

can take it, I think for like our overall success and our relationship. At the root, it’s because we’re friends, but the spillover effect is we work together. She’s the CEO of our business, and I’m the Vice President, whatever you want to call it, but we work together. I mean, it’s hand in hand. We’ve and to be honest, I really enjoy it. I mean, I don’t know if I would have ever thought working from home with my wife would have been on my bucket list of goals to do. But it works. She’s the big idea thinker and it spills over into the fact that I want to support her ideas. And I’ve seen it spill over into our children’s lives, and the joy that they have the appreciation that they have.

Jenny Swisher 36:51

Yeah, yeah, I think I mean, we see it, you know, I mentioned this earlier, but it’s worth mentioning, again, that we we I think the biggest spillover that I see is in our children, like you know, you don’t, you don’t realize like some of them even just little things from mannerisms to, to just acts of love that you see, when you see them performed in your children, you realize that they’re seeing that from you. And so for me, the spillover, the big spillover comes and is most evident in our children. But I also think just the support we’ve had for one another through you know, starting a fitness business, starting a health and wellness business like that has spilled over into making us a healthier couple a healthier, we’re healthier individuals. And because of that it’s it’s helped our relationship, right? What’s that other, it comes back to that choice of growing together doesn’t necessarily mean we’re pursuing health and wellness in the same ways or that we’re doing it together. But making that a priority for our relationship has spilled over into our overall health, as well. And so, yeah, that’s what I would say,

Kimberly Hoffman 37:58

That’s awesome. Being in service to others can’t help but kind of come full circle, circle back to our own relationships. So that’s fun to hear. Jenny, if you had to go back to your unmarried self, and give yourself one piece of advice. So you’ve had all this time to grow and learn. What would you what what’s that one piece of advice that you would go back and give yourself if you could do that?

Jenny Swisher 38:30

I think for me, the piece of advice I would give myself is not to assume that the marriage is going to be happy without intentionality. And to make intentionality a priority. I’m a huge personal growth junkie, so to speak. And I was introduced to John Maxwell, when I’ve worked with a John Maxwell certified life coach now for a dozen years, which has helped me on a personal level. But one of the things that he talks about is having a personal growth plan. And I remember when I was being introduced to that concept, it was very new to me, I thought that it was up to my employer to you know, to help me develop skill sets and grow as a person or I thought it was something that just happened to you. But you know, John Maxwell is known for his quote that says, aging is inevitable, but growth is optional. And I think the same thing goes with marriage, right? Like your marriage can sort of persist through time, but it’s only going to thrive with intentionality and effort. So that would be the advice I give. I give myself

Kimberly Hoffman 39:35 about you, Chris.

Chris Swisher 39:36

I think for me, it’s kind of relishing in the small moments. Being present, I think it’s very easy for us to kind of go about the day to day or week to week or year to year and time just passes whether it’s our marriage or our first 10 years without kids and stuff that we did just the two of us or as we add to our family and and have children I think it’s really just Being able to turn things off and be present in relish in those really small moments. Yeah,

Kimberly Hoffman 40:06 that was a great advice,

Matthew Hoffman 40:08

good advice. And it’s fun to have the luxury of looking back and see if it works today. And we are so grateful for both of you for your relationship for the work that you’re doing. And the thoughts that you’ve shared with us today. If, if people want to learn more about you and your company, where should they go?

Jenny Swisher 40:28

Yeah, so Chris is sort of my behind the scenes guy. I’ve I’ve sort of branched out into the world of women’s hormone health, specifically in the last three years. So everything that I do can be found at Jenny, which is je and n YSWIS. H I’m also on all social media outlets at Jenny Swisher. So you can find me there as well happy to have a conversation with anybody. But he’s sort of my behind the scenes guy. So he, he’s by association with me. Through the website, whatnot, he handles all of my backend stuff. So

Chris Swisher 40:59
I am on social, just probably not as active as Jenny is just that just that current social.

Jenny Swisher 41:03
Do you want to see pictures of our children, you can go to his account? Yeah, for sure.

Matthew Hoffman 41:08

That’s great. Well, thank you for your honesty, and the truth you shared today, for spending time with us and our listeners, we’re glad you’re here. And we want to acknowledge all the good work that you’re doing to be a mission driven messenger and help others with some of the things same things that you’ve gone through and are going through. So we tip our hats to you and are grateful for the good work that you’re doing. And thank you for being with us today.

Kimberly Hoffman 41:35
Yes, thank you. I’ve enjoyed getting to know both of you better and appreciate your openness

and vulnerability with us and as well as our listeners. So thank you very much. Yeah. Well,

Jenny Swisher 41:46
thank you guys. We appreciate it. And I’m so glad we’ve connected. Thanks for giving us the

opportunity. Our pleasure. Absolutely. We’ll

Matthew Hoffman 41:52 see you again soon. Thank you.

Kimberly Hoffman 41:54

Thanks, guys. Bye bye. That’s all we’ve got for this episode of the Kickass Couples Podcast. If you liked the content of the show, then you’ll love Matthew’s newly released book, Kickass Husband: Winning At Life, Marriage and Sex.” To receive a digital mini book of quotes and images from the book. All you have to do is rate this show and leave a review in Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you tune into. Then email us a screenshot of your review at podcast at And we’ll get it over to you right away. Until next time, remember happily ever after doesn’t just happen. It’s on purpose.