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Excited to be coming here with you today with my bride, my number one, Kimberly Diane Swain pain Hoffman.
It’s a very long day.
It is it’s her middle names, my middle names. We combine them in there. It’s all the names. And one it’s like when your parents are upset with you and you hear your whole name, you know, your, you better stand up and add attention. So this is the first podcast episode that we’re doing on one of our pillars and our, the rhythm that we’re going to get in with a kick couples podcast is every fifth episode. We’re going to be focusing on one of our 13 pillars. So we’re going to do a little deep dive because those are the, the lens that we look through, the qualities that we like to talk about. And it’s no surprise to you hopefully to us, certainly that today we’re talking about commitment because it is the first number one and really kind of the linchpin or cornerstone of all of our pillars. Would you say?
Definitely. Um, I feel like without commitment, there is no good communication and there isn’t going to be any conflict resolution, um, because we’re not committed and we’re not, um, desirous of being in the relationship of working on the relationship every day, day to day.
For sure. That’s where we start commitment. Cause that’s when you say I do, right. It’s not just the words, but it’s the actions behind it. And we’re going to kind of get into that today and talk about what it means, what it looks like, what it sounds like and feels like in your relationship, because we want everybody thinking about their commitment to the relationship to the us, not to me, not to you, but to us, that third member that’s shows up every time in a, in a, in a relationship. So let’s jump in and really make sure that we’re understanding this idea, right? Kim, you have some thoughts and ideas about definition, right of commitment.
I, when I started thinking about commitment, I said, let me look up commitment. I’m going to look up in Webster’s dictionary. And then I even went to the urban dictionary and really just started researching and looking to see what I could find out there on commitment. And Webster says, it’s an agreement or a pledge to do something in the future. It is the state or an instance of either being obligated or emotionally impelled. Um, and when I, when I looked it up even further and looked at synonyms of commitment, I saw things like adhesion, allegiance, attachment, constancy, dedication, devoted newness, and a lot of these actually show up in our 13 pillars, a lot of these synonyms. And then I looked even further and saw antonyms, which were just the exact opposite, obviously of, um, of commitment and it’s disloyalty, faithlessness, falseness, falsity, infidelity. And so, you know, just in, in, in looking at that and looking at the definition, um, you know, it, it, it’s a pledge, it’s an agreement. It’s a, it’s a commitment to do something with another person day in and day out, no matter what.
Absolutely. I agree to that. And I want to make, give a little shout out. Sometimes we like to bring quotes in to when they capture kind of the meaning of something. And one of my wife’s favorite authors, a book that she had me read early on in our marriage was Nicholas Sparks. Uh, and, uh, you, you made me read the notebook, the notebook, and it was, you know, I, a little kicking and screaming, maybe initially some of those romantic things I did enjoy it, but he has a quote that I thought was really apropos and I’m going to share it. And this was a kind of a shout out to my bride. And this is my life partner next to me, my, my best friend, he had to say, so it’s not going to be easy. It’s going to be really hard. We’re going to have to work at this every day, but I want to do that because I want you, I want all of you forever every day, you and me every day. And I think that, you know, a lot of the ideas in that quote really make you think that that’s what it’s gotta be. That’s what commitment is all about. And I think he captured that because it’s not easy. It’s hard, it’s a messy, it’s frustrating, but we do it anyways because we want, what do y’all has to offer?
Well, thank you for that. I do love, um, the notebook and Nicholas Sparks and, um, th that sort of leads me into the urban dictionary. Uh, the actual definition that I found there, there were several, but one really REL resonated with me. And that is commitment is what transforms the promise into reality. It’s the words that speak boldly of your intentions and the actions which speak louder than the words it’s making the time when there is none. And it’s coming through time after time, after time, year after, year after year commitment is the stuff character’s made of the power to change the face of things. It’s the daily triumph of integrity over skepticism. When I say, I love you, I mean, that I’m committed to working to love you, even when it’s hard.
Absolutely. Yeah. It’s kind of, it’s not the, I loved it when you talked about earlier, uh, fidelity and it’s, and another concept I think is so important, not just about commitment, but any quality in a relationship and it’s demonstration is that it’s demonstration. It’s not, the words are nice and the words can come and indicate and they communicate, but it’s really those actions, right. That we take for each other, uh, selflessly each and every day. And how is it demonstrated? Because if it’s not demonstrated, it’s just kind of that hollow gong, right? That, that thing that doesn’t have any meaning to it. Yeah.
It takes me back to a time. Um, you know, a really good example in our own lives of commitment is when I had a couple of years of having some health challenges, I would say there were two solid years of me not feeling well, us trying to discover what it was, what was causing me, um, to have some health challenges. And during that time, I just remember being so frustrated and not able at some time sometimes to pull my own weight in our family and time after time, you would come through and say, if you need to rest, go take the time to do it. Um, if you’re not feeling well right now, just take a break. Uh, there were times when I was frustrated with physicians and just really struggling to try to continue to find out what was going on, and you would go to doctor’s appointments with me and just continue to reassure me that we were going to figure out what was going on and that it all was going to be well.
And those are really tough time in my life. There were days that I would wake up and just say, oh my gosh, how am I going to make it through the day? Or I’d be on a Sunday evening thinking, oh my goodness, how am I going to make it through the week? How am I going to support my family and my husband when I can’t even hardly function myself. And so, um, you were there day in, day out, didn’t matter what you needed to do. Just you stepped up and did it. And that to me was such a showing of your commitment to me and to our family, to our relationship. Um, so that’s a really good example that I can think of how I had personally experienced.
I appreciate that you sharing that. And that’s, I heard, uh, the farewell quality of loyalty coming through, and I appreciate you sharing that. And, uh, it was my pleasure to do that because I know it’s what you needed. And I could only imagine some of the challenges, you know, if any of you all out there have had any health challenges, you know, I think somebody made the quote one time, if you’ve got good health, you got a hundred problems. If you’ve got bad health, you have one problem because you just can’t get beyond that issue. That seems to plague and dog, you each and every day. And, uh, good health is something that when you got it, you don’t really think about it, but when you don’t have it, it’s hard not to keep thinking about it. So I know that was a tough time in our relationship, and it wasn’t easy for me either.
It wasn’t all roses and sunshine. It was hard to do that sometimes because I would get frustrated because I felt a little helpless. Um, cause it wasn’t something I could control. All I could control though, was my response to it and to you in that moment. And that’s what I was striving to do. And an example, when I think about in our relationship about commitment is I had a former business partner who was pretty dishonest and embezzled from me and our company. And we ended up in an over 11 year lawsuit and that just ground me down emotionally, financially, spiritually, physically. And there were times when I couldn’t sleep because I could just couldn’t turn the brain off. And I was thinking about those things. And you were, by my side, you came to every hearing, you came to the trial, went on for two weeks, right?
And we eventually won, got a great outcome and they appealed and we won the appeal too, but that was such a cathartic process. And I can’t imagine having gone through that and not having your support and your unequivocal constancy in that. And that was an example of commitment because it was not fun. It was expensive. It cost us a lot of money. And man, it was that big elephant in the room was a friend of mine would say that big piece of furniture, right. That you just can’t ignore. And so I’m really grateful. That was a wonderful example of your commitment to me and our relationship. And just a couple of ways that you guys, our audience, and all, everybody listening today can hear there’s many stories we could tell. And those are just a few of how we experienced that, um, with each other. And it also kind of makes me think about what does commitment mean in the context of marriage or a sound relationship? We’ve kind of given a couple of examples in, but when someone said to you, you shared examples, but how would you describe it for someone who said me? What does commitment look like in a committed relationship or a sound relationship, right? Meaning a strong one. What are some of the things that come to your mind,
It’s having the desire to, to improve it, to, um, invest in it too. Like we just talked about our examples to sacrifice for it. I mean, those are things that, um, every day we, we, we have to do, um, you know, investing in it, linking our goals to the commitment of our spouse is really important as well. Um, you know, um, you gotta be committed to having fun, right? If there’s fun, then what are we doing? Right.
I want to, I want you to talk a little bit more about, I loved what you said. Um, you’re talking about sacrifice. What role do you see, uh, sacrifices having in commitments? I think a lot of people miss that and don’t really understand because it’s not about doing always what you want. So how does, what’s the healthy way that sacrifice comes in, uh, to commitment?
I think for me for sacrifice, it’s, you know, there may be times when, um, I know that you might need my attention or, um, we need to just have some couch time, just some Matt and Kim time. And I am, um, I’m a doer and sometimes it’s hard to pull me away from things that I’m working on. Um, it could be a household chore, it could be something I’m doing with or for the children. Um, but I get really focused on that and I have to remember to pull myself away from that and to come to you and give you the time that you need. I may be really super tired and just say, Ugh, I’m just, I can’t, I don’t have it in me right now to give, but in the back of my mind, I know that I need to do it. And so I bring it to the forefront and I say, you know what, I’m going to, I’m going to sacrifice it. I’m tired right now. I’m gonna sacrifice, um, whatever it is that I’m embedded in doing. And I’m going to commit that time to you. So I think it’s first realizing that, you know, being cognizant that you need to do those things for each other and then following through and doing it. Sure.
And has that, has that been hard for you? Have you found that to be difficult? Like I am, I’m going to do this, but I really don’t want to. Or how do you, how do you feel about having to make that sacrifice when you’re in that moment? I,
I think I used to, but I feel like things have changed a lot for me because I know that when I’m committed to you and I’m one, I make sacrifices for you, it makes you all the more happier to do the same for me. And the reciprocity starts when you sacrifice for each other. And then, and it feels good, right? I mean, I know that when I’m low, you’re going to bring me up and when you’re low, hopefully I’m going to be there to bring you up.
Absolutely. And it’s interesting because you can’t, you can’t go into it. You everybody’s favorite radio station is w I F M have you heard of that station? Is that when you ever listened to w I F M what’s in it for me, right. I think that’s, everybody loves to tune in to that, but in, in with commitment and sacrifice, if your motive is what can, you know, what am I going to get out of this? Right. I’ll do it, but like conditional, right. Conditional sacrifice. If, and maybe that’s not it. And, and when you come to the relationship, like you talked about in your example about I’m going to do it, because it’s what I want to do, because I know what it’s going to bring to my partner and to my spouse, that law of reciprocity kicks in. Right. And it becomes not quid pro quo.
Well, she did this yesterday. Therefore I got to do this today. Can’t keep track. It’s not about keeping score, but it’s really about just saying, I’m going to meet her the same way. I’m willing to do that. And, uh, something that I always come back to when we’re talking about commitment, what I see it as an example, and what reminds me is that there’s no plan B my commitment to you is there no matter what, it’s not like, ah, gosh, you know, it’s going tough. I’m not real happy with it. Oh, that’s okay. Because I have something else I can do, or I can engage with somebody or disengage or do something else. I’m not looking for something else to make my life easy. I’m in it, no matter what, and working through or playing through that difficulty, because it’s what I need to do. And as you said earlier, that law of reciprocity is going to come back because you’re going to say, oh my gosh, he was really there for me. I want to look for that opportunity that I can be here for him.
I’m pouring myself into you. I know that you’re going to pour yourself into me. And that, um, that to me is just the whole idea of, of commitment is just pouring everything you have into that person. I know, even when you don’t have it, right, even when you have just muster up the energy to do it, because that person in turn is going to do the same for you.
And I think that part of the challenge comes in and I found this in some of the research I was doing before I knew we were going to have this episode is that conflict occurs when there is asymmetrical commitment. And I thought about that. I thought, okay, if, if, if Kim and I are each half of a wheel, right, and we’re each a nice even round piece and we make that perfect circle together. When one of us, when the, when one of our commitments is not the same as the other it’s asymmetrical. So what’s going to happen to that wheel when you want it to turn, it’s not gonna work really well. And I think that conflict can a, uh, can arise in a relationship when there’s asymmetrical commitment. One person is committed more fully than the other. And when those two don’t match up, that’s where conflict arises.
So when, if you’re talking about commitment, I feel I’m more committed than you are. You’re more committed than me. I think you have to back up and look and say, do we have the same level of commitment? Are we asymmetrical? Are we each willing to do whatever it takes and to give that way? And so if you’re trying to work through conflict relative to commitment, I think it’s a good thing to step back and examine, wow, am, am I as committed as my partner is on this, or as committed as I need to be, am I bringing my a game or I might taking the easy way out and just continuing to accept and pull, uh, and take what my partner is, giving me as opposed to reflecting and given that back.
Yeah. I love that. There’s no plan B, right? If you both really truly believe there’s no plan B, then you’re going to do everything that it takes to, um, work out whatever issues you have and let’s face it. Life is going to continue to be a series of peaks and valleys. We’re going to be thrown curve balls. Things are going to happen. Um, and, and how we handle that and how we, we approach that, um, personally and together is SU is super important.
When it comes to creating a marriage. Do you ever wonder how you’re doing? We found that there are 13 key components that make up a thriving relationship, which is why we’ve created the kick-ass assessment in this powerful free tool. You’ll learn what they are and how you and your spouse are ranking in each one. And you’ll get recommendations that will help you start moving today. Get your results simply visiting Matthew hoff.com. Again, that’s Matthew hoffman.com. It’s time to start kicking. Let’s go. No doubt, no doubt. I think you have to get agreement on a lot of things. And one of the other points that was you and I talked about this a little bit is no matter where you are in a relationship, hopefully you have this conversation before that marriage happens, but if it hasn’t happened, then there’s, there’s never too late, right.
To kind of address. And you have to get agreement on kind of those big issues. Like how are we relative to commitment? Like, what does commitment look like? What does lack of, you heard us talk about things that were favorable qualities and unfavorable, and, you know, we don’t want to dwell on that, but let’s, let’s be honest and talk about some of those things, betrayal, right? Lack of integrity. Somebody that breaks promises somebody who’s inconsistent in their dedication or effort. Maybe somebody has wandering eyes. Maybe somebody is struggling with some kind of addiction and any, it doesn’t matter what the addiction is that addiction is going to pull you away and try to get you to be committed to something else. That’s not your spouse. So we need to have those difficult conversations up front and get agreement. What does commitment look like to you and to me, and are we in sync about that?
Cause if we have different ideas that are unspoken, kind of that conversation, Chris canvas, my coauthor says, you know, if there’s conversations that never happened, that’s where contempt and lack of trust come from. So that may not be easy, but you and I have had conversations on what commitment looks like and what does betrayal look like? And okay, that person might be good looking, but I’m not looking to them for anything else. I can appreciate somebody else’s strength that we’re beauty, but it doesn’t replace or substitute you in our relationship. So can you think of, uh, how, how do you, how would you recommend somebody approach those difficult conversations? So we make sure we get them out in the open. We have them beforehand. What’s your thought on that?
I just think it’s important. Like you said before you again, um, a relationship to start having those, those really deep conversations about what commitment looks like to you, because I think that it’s different for everyone. And depending upon perhaps even your family of origin, what did commitment look like in your parents’ relationship that might be all, you know, that might be all that you’ve experienced. Um, and so I think it’s really important for each person to understand what commitment looks like to the individual first and then talking about how do we build the groundwork for our own relationship and what commitment is going to look like in our relationship. Um, you know, it, to me, it’s just, you’re going to resist any temptation that there is that out there when you’re committed to somebody else, you’re going to resist any temptation for betrayal, for trashing your husband, um, in front of others, um, or even behind his back or to your children speaking poorly about your husband to your children. Um, you’re just, you’re not going to go there, but I think it’s really important to have those conversations beforehand. It’s not it to me. It’s not, um, it’s having conversations about, you know, is, is pornography acceptable because I feel like now in today’s world, most people think, yeah, it’s okay to do that. You know, I think having those conversations beforehand are really important because perhaps your partner is gonna say no way, but is not acceptable.
I think that a term that really, uh, rung true to me and I’d love to hear, you know, what, there’s a term called unconditional acceptance. And even though you and I come from different backgrounds and experiences and origins, I know one of the things I didn’t use to understand or feel not because you weren’t offering it in our relationship. I didn’t understand it as I was afraid or fearful that you wouldn’t accept me for who I was. Right. Unconditionally meaning. Hmm. Well, I don’t know about that. And I don’t like that, but you have done a wonderful job about making me feel unconditionally accepted no matter what I thought or did or believe or any of my fears or my struggles. Right. And I think that that’s a really important concept that I’m free to be who I am unconditionally because you’re going to accept me. Yeah.
That’s the vulnerability part. And I know that part isn’t easy, especially when we’re worried about what our spouse is going to think or feel, or, you know, are we’re afraid of how that may impact our relationship.
Yeah. The vulnerable vulnerability is key and talking about commitment a little further, Dr. Michael P. Johnson. He’s a sociology professor at Penn state university. And these are kind of three things that are talked about by a lot of people, but he said, there’s kind of three kinds of commitment. Uh, and, and the first one he described as personal commitment, which AKA, I want to meaning I want to be committed in this way. The second type he talked about was moral commitment. In other words, I know I ought to because a it’s the right thing to do. And the third was structural commitment. In other words, I have to because there’s consequences of not doing it. And Kim, when you think about you and I talked about this a little bit, but which kind of commitment is it personal? I want to, the moral I ought to, or structural, I have to, which one of those kind of rises to the top for you, or you think is most relevant in our relationship or in those close relationships where commitment is well demonstrated?
Well, I think the first thing that for me, um, my foundation of commitment is built on my spirituality, right. So I start there. And because of that, I’m going to connect with you personally, um, on the personal commitment side. And that’s going to be probably first and foremost for me, but also because of my spirituality, I have a moral compass and I feel like the moral commitment, um, would come right under that as well. But for me, you know, personal commitment to you, to our family, um, to our relationship and then obviously bringing morality into that is where, where I kind of lie.
How about you, what do you tell me a little bit about how you feel about commitment, um, and those three different types?
Yeah, I think it’s, I don’t want you to ever feel, and I don’t ever want to feel like I’m obliged, like, eh, this is something I have to do. Right. Because it, and I don’t feel that way. And I think it’s really important that, um, you do it out of a sense of desire that meaning that first level of commitment that you were talking about personally, I want to, because if you want to, it, it feels good. It’s not, you’re not being impelled or made to do it, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having components of that moral commitment I ought to because you want that voice, you know, the angel on your shoulder saying, hold on, this is not the right thing to do. That’s your conscience. And that those are your values. And those are those things speaking up and structurally too.
I have to, I think if you thinking about consequences, like, Hey, I can’t afford to do this because this is what’s going to happen. Right. So the structural commitment means there may be some external things that are operating on you and those are the consequences, right? That’s you have to think about commitment about all those things really coming together and forming a kind of a woven fabric, because there are elements of the personal, the moral and the structural that come to play in all decisions we make, it’s kind of like the eyes wide open, right? You want it to come from that personal because that’s when it’s most real and felt. But I think that Dr. Johnson kind of said, Hey, uh, you know, all these things are included in it. And, um, you know, I think there’s a lot of different ways to I’d love just for us to kind of spitball a little bit right now. And maybe we can each throw out ways that, uh, ongoing commitment can be shown in a relationship because it’s not it’s multi-dimensional right. It’s not just, it can happen one way or two ways. What are some, we’ve talked about a few of them, but let’s just work together. And if we had to put a list together of the ways that commitment can be shown, what might some of those look like? Like how does it show up? Just so people know there’s a lot of ways really to show commitment right. In a relationship.
Sure. I mean, faithfulness for sure.
Absolutely. I mean, we talked about action versus words, right? It’s nice to hear the words. And those are some ways that people like to hear things, but I think through action, your behavior, because that really reflects your commitment. Right? Absolutely. Um, I think getting others involved, right? Accountability. So your spouse, your kids, uh, having them be accountable for, and you know, one of the chapters in the book, uh, that we’ve got coming out, kick husband, one of the titles of the chapters is pray for them. And I think that, I think that prayer can really show your level of commitment, prayer together, or prayer individually for yourself, because it’s a discipline and you’re committed to that discipline. It’s going to show up in the relationship. I think, um, those are some of the things. And how do you think about public acts of commitment? Like, do you, is that something that you like to see in our relationship or you think is important, like a public declaration? Is that something that you see happening? What do you
Mean by that?
In other words, if I’m going public with it, if I’m letting others know how committed I am to you, whether it’s out at dinner with somebody, whether it’s in a post about how much I love this person, how much I’m committed to. Right. What do you think about that public declaration?
I think it’s reassuring for the other person to see or hear that. So I think public declarations are, are important, but I also think it’s incredible for you and I to be together. Maybe it’s over dinner and it just, the two of us for you to reaffirm your commitment to me, you know, looking into each other’s eyes and you’re talking might be having a conversation, um, about something really personal. And, you know, just that, that affirmation of, you know, I love you and I’m committed to you. That means a lot,
Absolutely goes a
So one of the unique things about our podcast, I don’t know if you all can hear, but we are in our Airstream studio right now. And guess what’s happening outside. I don’t know if you hear the thunder and the lightning, but Hey, we, we, we are in a we’re in Greenville, South Carolina, and we got a storm moving through. So even though our little silver capsule is pretty well insulated here, you might hear some boons and bangs and some pitter-patter on the roof. Great. If you want to take a nap and curl up, that’s so wonderful on a podcast, but what we’re going to play through. That’s okay. That’s okay. So we’ve kind of talked about the definition. We’ve talked about examples and, um, and I think we’ve talked about how, how things show up and what we can do to demonstrate, uh, that better commitment.
This is number one of our 13 pillars and the 13 pillars. If you all want to check those out, we’ll include them. We’ll include a screenshot here and, uh, in this podcast, but you can also go to our website, Matthew P hoffman.com. And you can get that, download the PDF of those pillars. If you want to see what the rest of those are. Anything else, Kim, that you think of that we want to share on commitment. And I think we’ve talked about the definition and why it’s important or anything else that you think that we need to
Yeah, again, just reiterating that if the commitment isn’t there, then not much else will follow. So I think it really is first and foremost in a relationship, it is number one, it is key to having a successful relationship is, is having that commitment. And again, it’s, it’s a daily, um, reflection and a daily demonstration and daily act of, um, showing your spouse that you’re there and that you’ve got their back every single day.
Yeah. And it’s going to, it’s going to show up to, as Kim said, daily in little things, you know, um, there’s a lot of little things you can do to show commitment. It could be a touch. It could be a word. It could be a daily act of service. We’ve talked about that. I bring my wife for a cup of coffee almost every day. And it’s, I don’t, I don’t do it out of obligation, but I do it because it’s one small way. I can say, Hey, I’m thinking about you. I’m putting you first. And I want to show that to you in my actions, it might be words of me telling her how great she looks. And before we go out to dinner, right? That’s another way, some words of affirmation. So it doesn’t have to be a planned monumental, uh, event or gift or cost a lot of money, but it can be it, it’s your active decision to show the person that is number one to your number one relationship, right?
You never want a human relationship that you’re committed to them. And I think that having conversations, if you don’t feel that your spouse or, or you don’t, maybe even, you don’t feel that you have the commitment that you should have in your relationship, it’s sitting down and asking the questions of your spouse and saying, what does commitment look like to you? Right? How does, how do you think it should show up in our relationship? How does it show up in our relationship and getting them to rate you on it and doing the same for them? And having that open, honest discussion, I think is critical. And it’s not once it’s ongoing and when there’s an issue, it’s really addressing it and trying to understand. So you can make those changes and trim the sails to get a better reflection of how you guys are each doing in your relationship.
First of all, I love that cup of coffee every single day. And I’m so grateful for it. So, um, but I, I wanna, I wanna just back up a little bit, you hit something that sort of resonated with me. And I think that if you understand what the love language is of your spouse, that you can be committed to making sure you’re doing those things, whatever language they’re speaking, whether it is words of affirmation, maybe it’s, um, acts of service or just spending time. Are you committed to doing those things that your spouse feels is extra special for them, or is something that’s going to touch them in a really personal way?
Absolutely. And I think, you know, Gary Chapman’s book the five love languages. If you haven’t read it, we recommend it. It’s a resource list. We’ve done it for each other. We’ve done it for our kids. And it really is just it’s, it’s not you about being committed to love somebody the way you want to love them, but it’s being committed to loving them the way they want to be loved. And that’s a journey and that’s learning, it’s asking the questions. It can be as easy as, and I’ve asked him this before I go, how well am I filling your love tank? Right. Am I doing the right things? You know, and she’s never said 10 out of 10, right? It’s, it’s been as high as 9, 9, 5. I never gotten a 10, but I tell you what. Yeah, but it hasn’t been a one, two or three either.
So I know I’m doing okay, but that, you know, that’s a great question is how well did I fill your love tank today or this week, or this month? Or, you know, do you feel lately? And, uh, guys, let me tell you what, if you get a less than, less than seven, you got a lot of work to do, right? It may, it may be something critical, but I want it to, we started with a quote today. I kind of did a shout out to my lovely bride here. And I want to end with one today, if that’s okay, this is from George Elliott. And George Elliot says, what greater thing is there for two human souls. And to feel that they are joined for life to strengthen each other in all labor, to rest on each other in all sorrow to minister, to each other in silent unspeakable memories at the moment of the last parting. So we want to leave that thought with you today and ask you, what are you doing in your relationship to increase your commitment to how you’re demonstrating it for each other. We appreciate you joining us today and we look forward to the next time you get to join and come be part of the kick-ass couples podcast.
Thanks everyone. Next one is communication.
Next deep dive. Five more episodes. And we’ll be come at you with a little bit more about how to increase the level of your communication, your relationship. We’ll see you next time.
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