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Kimberly Hoffman, Matthew Hoffman, Chris Cambas
Matthew Hoffman 00:12
Welcome back to the kick ass couples podcast. We are excited to be bringing you a special episode today with quite the expert and we’re gonna be talking about how to have red hot intimacy with your partner. Joining us today is our special panelist, Chris Canvas who is an LM ft. He’s also an elite KCN therapist. He’s the co author of this amazing book called kick ass husband winning at life marriage and sex. And this young guy has had over 35,000 hours of face to face counseling therapy and training. So if he doesn’t know it, I don’t know who would. So Chris, welcome back to the podcast.
Chris Cambas 03:43
Thanks Thanks for having me. Always love to be here. And you know I love the book too. My clients always asked me about the book.
Matthew Hoffman 03:51
Do they buy it Chris though? Are they buying the book?
Chris Cambas 03:53
I refer them to it you know the guys right? The women will buy it easily it’s getting the guys to actually read it right so
Matthew Hoffman 03:59
Getting the guys to read it I know it maybe we got to do a Cliff’s Notes version so the men can get it in a minute a day. I don’t know what what it’s going to take but this episode today is about everybody dreams, yearns and really wants to have their own most important intimate human relationship be full of the most amazing sex red hot intimacy yet, so very few people seem to be experiencing that in their relationship. And today we’re going to explore, discuss and try to create a roadmap if we can, what can a couple each partner in that relationship do to experience this kind of steamy, satisfying sex life and deep intimacy I know we don’t have hours and hours Chris so we’re gonna we’re gonna just hit the high level here and start with some questions and I’m gonna kick it off with the first question. Why are so few people living in this kind of relationship Nirvana right now? Like why are so many chasing and they just don’t seem to be there?
Chris Cambas 04:59
Yeah, I think the idea is this, you know, pulling pulling back from the sex component, people get married, because it’s the next thing to do.Right? And then they have kids, because it’s next thing to do without any comprehension in the magnitude of the commitments that they’re making, and then life bulldozes, right. And they kind of hit this existential crisis of, you know, I mean, this it is this it, so they become very dissatisfied in life, and they project this stuff onto their partner. And so relationships are bad, right, like, 67% of first marriages fail in the first 40 years, 50% has happened the first seven years. 70% a second, 73% a third, you know, average age of marriage 29, average age of first affairs, 36 and a half. And so the idea of getting married, because it’s next thing to do, and on and on and on, you know,it leaves people wanting, right. It leaves them wanting and as life bulldozes them, you know, they yearn for more. And so the relationships go sour, right? Go sour, the average age, average length of the first marriage is about 7.9 years. So relationships go south, right? And who wants to have sex with somebody, they’re not feeling, you know, connected too close to? Right. So how do we ultimately get there, we have to build out you know, good relationships, right. But that requires commitment, right, which is ultimately a discipline. It’s not motivation, it’s just a discipline, I’m going to commit to you to commit to this relationship, which is larger than us, right? It’s marriage we have is larger than us, and I’m gonna commit every day, right? I’m going to be disciplined every day to do the things that are going to create a great relationship. And in doing that, right, we can connect we can have, we can have great sex, not every time, right, but we can have some great sex, right? We can go rent a room at the Ritz in Naples for the weekend, have a great night, you know, have a great weekend, we can have, you know, passionate sex, right? Other times, it’s just going to be you know, this one’s for you, or this one’s for you. And that’s kind of the idea, right? But the ultimate reason why people aren’t having really passionate sex is because they’re fundamentally, you know, not into their partner. Bottom line, right, they got married, just because it was the next thing to do. This is
Matthew Hoffman 07:23
What I hear you saying is the sex that’s not amazing, steamy, hot, rewarding and incredible. stems from it’s not a functional thing. Really. We’ll talk more about that in a minute. But it’s about the lack of genuine, equal bilateral commitment to the relationship and to the person.
Chris Cambas 07:41
Yeah, and a really understanding of on the very front end. You know, what this marriage thing is? It’s not just another, you know, check mark in life. Esther Perel talks about this, but she does it she tickles people’s ears, meaning she would say, you know, you’re not mature, if you can’t handle your partner having you know, extramarital affairs, right? And the only way you can really get your kink on is if you just you know, go have these one, nightstands? Well, that’s ridiculous. That’s ridiculous. The real issue is, as I said, people are getting married because his next thing to do, right without any any thought into, you know, 50 years is a long time. 50 years is a long time, and how am I going to keep just the passion and the desire? And I’m not even talking about sex, the passion, the desire going for you. Right, for the next 50 years, much less, much less. I mean, we haven’t even gotten to sex, but how am I going to stay into you for the next 40, 50, 60 years? So this is the real issue, right? The how do we I mean, we buy a new car, guys, and we love it. And six months later, it’s like, yeah, it’s a car. And so this is this is the problem with human beings, right? We’re really bad at committing to anything. And when we think about relationships, we’re not thinking about this thing is larger than me, right? We’re not living in that regard. We’re just living as you know, for ourselves in a lot of ways. And so relationships go south, when you think about average age of first affair. First is 36 and a half, that’s like seven and a half years later, after average age of first marriage. And we were disastrous that these things, absolute disasters.
Kimberly Hoffman 09:21
I love that you brought up you know what, what Esther says? Because I think others have, you know, scientifically been able to prove that monogamous sex is the very best. And that being in a relationship where you care about each other’s well being and are really focused on one another is the best source of intimacy that you will ever feel
Chris Cambas 09:50
Completely. anything short of it. Look, you can go out to a bar meet somebody and go swing from chandeliers but it’s empty. Right, it’s going to be empty and I would argue At the end of the day, or at the end of the night, you’re not going to feel really good about yourself. Right? I would make the argument when I’m when I’m committing to something larger than me. This this marriage this relationship, and I’m doing every day I’m getting up and I’m having to discipline to commit to you and and to turn towards you and all things that we can create passionate sex, not every time, but we can create some really passionate moments that are more than just, you know, physical sex more eyeball to eyeball soul to soul. I mean, like two souls dancing. Right. And I think that’s what we’re shooting for. Not just, you know, doing backflips from chandeliers. So we don’t have to be an expert at sexual practices or you know, be a devotee of Karma Sutra or any of those, you know, out there SEC crazy sex things that haven’t exciting in intimate sex life, completely. What we want what we’re shooting for. And John Gottman talks about this as personal sex, eyeball to eyeball soul to soul, right? Like the intermingling of two souls. That’s what we want. That’s the passion. That’s the real passion. Everything else is just visible. And it’s about me, I’m just taking needs.
Matthew Hoffman 11:18
Yeah, yeah. So the depth comes from touching the other person’s inner part soul, and having a you’re connecting with them on a deeper level. It’s not just getting I mean, physicality is part of it. But if that’s the motive, it’s going to be empty, because you’re measuring it on the gauge of how did it feel? How did it feel for me? How did it feel for you? How did it feel as opposed to how do we connect? How do we get more into each other? How did we have that shared experience? And so, Chris, you talked about commitment and kind of thinking about the magnitude of those things. But what’s the first step, if I want to start getting closer and more intimate with my wife, and have that goal, what’s the first thing a couple should do?
Chris Cambas 12:05
Realizing that absolutely every single interaction I have with my partner, every one, every interaction, one or two things is going to happen, I’m gonna add to the basis of trust, or I’m going to take away from. I’m texting and my wife speaks to me. It’s a sliding door, right? I can ignore, I just took a little bit away from trust, I can stop and engage, I just add a little bit too. So the thought of every interaction that I have with you, every one, I’m doing one of those two things. So the first thing we can do is start turning tour, we’re never going to be perfect at it. But it has to really, truly be the trend line. And doing that we’re developing trust, right, ultimately trustworthiness, right, and it makes the relationship feel better. If I’m continually turning away, I’m texting while you’re talking to me, I’m sending you the message, I don’t care. Right? And you’re only going to absorb that message so many times before all things become possible for you.
Kimberly Hoffman 12:59
So it’s an intentional time of turning towards every time somebody’s making a bid for your attention
Chris Cambas 13:07
Kimberly Hoffman 13:08
rather than a way that can be to the trust.
Chris Cambas 13:12
Matthew Hoffman 13:14
Is it wrong to think about so is it wrong for me to think about every interaction is a deposit is is either a positive or negative deposit towards creating that that? If so, I mean, if the end is to be more intimate and closer to have a really steamy, great relationship? Is it wrong for me to think I mean, it’s not I’m not motivated to do that only in every my interaction, but every time I relate or don’t relate to my partner, it’s either making that stronger, or dampening it and pouring cold water on it, right?
Chris Cambas 13:47
Absolutely. Yeah, it’s not like once such moments, not going to wreck the relationship. But if the trendline is constantly turning away, the message are continually sending as I don’t care. Right? And how long is that person going to absorb the message of you don’t care? Right? They’re only going to take it for so long. Distances being created, right distances and the more distance we’re creating, the closer we’re getting to some form of betrayal, that makes up.
Matthew Hoffman 14:15
Yeah, so the if the consistency over time messages, you don’t care, you’re not engaged, you’re not leaning in and turning towards me, then not only are you disconnecting from the relationship, but you’re going to start to look for you have your needs met, emotional, spiritual, intellectual, sexual, physical, someplace else.
Chris Cambas 14:37
Yeah. And I would argue the idea of turning away, right, turning away from your partner is a form of betrayal. Right? When it’s when it’s the trendline right when the trendline is I just turn away from you. I would argue that’s a form of betrqyal,
Matthew Hoffman 14:50
because you’re choosing and turning away you would define as an active choice to not engage.
Chris Cambas 14:58
Yeah, I’m just not interested. I’m more interested in sending out my text, I’m more interested in watching this TV show. I’m more interested in going to the ballgame. I’m more interested in everything else than you.
Kimberly Hoffman 15:08
But you, yeah.
Matthew Hoffman 15:10
Right. Got it.
Kimberly Hoffman 15:11
So if you were to give somebody a roadmap on what they could do to get to this really desired place of true intimacy, sexual intimacy, even, what would that look like?
Chris Cambas 15:23
I think I think the, the starting point, when I say this searcher soul relative to commitment into this relationship, like do you do you legitimately see yourself in this thing? Five years, 10 years, 1520 3040 years down the line? If you do, I would start the process of really getting to know your partner. We don’t know our spouses, guys, I mean, we’d spend very little time if any, at all sitting down and exploring and asking questions about their world, particularly their internal world, get to know your partner, right. And in that process, right, you’re working on friendship and intimacy. It’s also a way of turning toward, right, it also opens up the door for you to be able to share fondness and admiration, those type of things, that’s going to start laying the foundation for Well, I mean, starts laying the foundation for a great friendship. Right. And the research is clear men and women top on their agendas, they want a good friendship. And once we have a good friendship, rolling, it’s much easier to deal with conflict or anything else, and it opens up the door for, you know, good intimacy, for sure.
Kimberly Hoffman 16:29
Yeah. So get to know yourself. First, I think that’s a really important step, you have to ask yourself questions, what am I looking for? What are my expectations? You have to be able to answer those questions before yourself before you can actually take those to your partner?
Chris Cambas 16:45
Yeah, you know, the first step is, you know, do I really see myself in this thing for the moment right or am I just kind of here that I just sort of get married, because next thing to do, and I’m just sort of here just grinding it out? That’s never going to that’s not commitment, it’s never going to create any type of passion inside the relationship itself.
Matthew Hoffman 17:06
Right. And I think Chris, in a new relationship to it seems that people want to jump to the desert first, it’s like, you know, let’s connect, let’s have, you know, it’s exciting. It’s passionate. So the physical need Trump’s the development of that friendship system, and it’s kind of like, how can you? How can you be choose to be intimate with somebody when you’re not even friends? Because unless, I mean, that’s, it’s a one night stand, right? I mean, it’s just, it’s all about the event. It’s not about the relationship or the connection. And so for, it seems that people, if you’re in a new relationship, it’s like, develop the Friendship first, make sure you like the person and you like spending time with them, then you build that’s the building block, as you said, kind of the foundation of getting to have great intimacy. And even if you’ve been together with somebody, and married in that relationship, if that friendship system isn’t strong, you’re it’s a wall, you’re never gonna really be able to get to that intimacy in that great sex, are you?
Chris Cambas 18:08
Not at all, you know, I think of the book, The Song of Solomon, right? And so they’re, they’re talking, you know, this couples kind of heating out, right, they’re moving toward engagement and wedding night, whatnot. And so there’s this, you know, conversation or in and around premarital sex, you know, is the idea and says, catch the little foxes, right, who are ruining the vineyard 90 as foxes go in, and they’ll eat the buds of different flowers and retarding the growth of the field. Right. And so that’s the ideal. I mean, to your point, when we just jump into having sex, right, we kind of start retarding the growth of the relationship itself. That make sense?
Matthew Hoffman 18:46
Kimberly Hoffman 18:47
Chris Cambas 18:48
It’s just a physical thing. We’re just, I mean, blasting chemicals through our body, when in fact, right. If I’m going to do 50 years with you, I really need to get I need to realize I’m going to stay deliberate. So I’m seeing things in a completely delusional way. Right, I need to account for that I need to ask serious questions about these red flags that are actually there that I’m just overlooking, because you know, we’re doing triple backflips from the chandelier on Friday night. Make sense?
Kimberly Hoffman 19:15
It does. Are there conversations that men and women should have with their partners about sex and intimacy? .
Chris Cambas 19:38
I think the idea of sexuality as a whole. Well as a matter of fact, it’s one thing that we know couples globally really don’t talk about other than Hispanic, Latino, many likes, dislikes, fantasies, desires. And so I think it’s extremely important for couples to sit down and openly discuss sexuality, their likes, their dislikes, their fantasies, desires, all these types of things. And you know, what their perspective is, what their, you know, their appetite is so to speak. And so there’s a good baseline, there’s real understanding, at the same time, just because I understand your likes and dislikes, fantasies, desires, all these things doesn’t mean that I might not have a personal boundary. So I mean, a completely open conversation in and around sexuality. You know, no hold bars, right? Reality is, we all think the same thoughts about sex, we all have the same type of fantasies around sex. And to just have an open honest conversation about these types of things, and discuss what you’re really looking for from a sexuality perspective in this relationship is a necessity, it’s a must, obviously, lovingly, in a caring way. But you know, it’s important to have these conversations I have clients that will have affairs because they have you know, these these fantasies, but they won’t bring them to the table in the relationship. So they step outside of the relationship to kind of have these one nightstands fulfill these fantasies, right, as opposed to just bringing them to their partner and saying, Hey, this is something that I’d like to do, only to find out that their partner is like, Yeah, let’s let’s do that. Right. So just an open honest conversation about, you know, what they’re looking for sexually? And, you know, is their partner open to it? And if not, that’s okay. Right. But at least we know, right, we’ve had a full and thorough conversation about it.
Matthew Hoffman 22:12
Kimberly Hoffman 22:13
What about curiosity and excitement and adventure? You know, taking risks, how do you feel about that?
Chris Cambas 22:21
I think it’s great. I think that, again, all couples, everyone has the same type of fantasies and thoughts towards sex. So you’ll, you know, you’ll get a married couple, and, you know, they’ll they’ll, you know, go out on the beach late at night, right? And kind of find a safe spot and have sex on the beach, right? Or, you know, jump in the backseat of the car up on top of a mountain somewhere, or just different types of things, you know, curiosity, and then even from, you know, just staying at home, I mean, couples will experiment with all kinds of sexual toys, and just all kinds of stuff, right? Which is fine. And we encourage that, right? Explore, have some fun, I mean, you’re in a relationship with the person, that’s what we want you to do, we want you to do, you know, truly explore and have a lot of fun in doing that. And in doing that, you get to know your partner. Right, what they want, what they desire, at the same time, when we’re having sex, be able to guide your partner and direct your partner. Yeah, this feels good touch there, do this do that. So a couple is really like, you know, and communication on that as well.
Kimberly Hoffman 23:26
Yeah, being vulnerable in those moments is important.
Chris Cambas 23:31
Absolutely, we’re not omnicient right? It’s not like we know, you got to give them information here.
Matthew Hoffman 23:38
And I think I mean, in for men, and I’m sure it is for women, too. I bet I kind of feel like men feel they have to dictate control, regulate, like, Hey, I’m in charge here. Right. But I think being willing, even we talked about influence a lot in relationships and accepting influence. And that includes accepting sexual influence, right? Hey, I’d like this, try this. That doesn’t feel good to me. Does this feel good to you? You know, it’s kind of like it sex is not eyes closed and silence. Right. It’s a it’s, as you, you talked about earlier, a dance. And I think that’s true. And each throughout the dance, somebody’s leading somebody’s following. And it’s being open and inviting and intuitive about what that does. So, I think that it’s kind of breaking down those norms, and it’s not sick, a successful great, wonderful, intimate relationship is defined by you and your partner. Right, not by a societal norm, or a movie or a porn, you know, it’s, I think you have to define to yourselves what great sex is and achieve it together, as opposed to say, how can our relationship fit into the mold or live up to somebody else’s definition of what it should be?
Chris Cambas 24:56
Yeah, I think one of the great hindrances to having really just sort of wide open sex is we’ve done an extremely bad job in the past. I mean, look, guys, I’m a guy of faith. But I’m going to tell you the church has done a really poor job about teaching about sex over the past couple of hours news from Catholic Church, what was the original sin? biggest bunch of garbage I’ve ever heard in my life. But the idea, I mean, we have all these things built up around sex, right? And so, you know, there’s all these social norms, mores, taboos, and then the message is kind of bad. When it’s not bad. It’s not bad, right? And me, and you can to decide can decide what we like what works for us, and we can enjoy that time together, whatever it is we’re doing, right? It doesn’t have to tie in to some type of social norm more a tap nothing, right? Does it work for us? Is it pleasurable for us? Do we connect? And that’s all that matters, right? But people are so bogged down. I see this a lot with a lot of women, they’re so bogged down in ideas, like, you know, I’m not a bad girl. Well, I mean, why why, you know, being wide open and exploring sexuality with your partner, why does that make you a bad girl? Right, all the messages that have been sent, right, all the messages. And so that those things just aren’t true, right? We’re in healthy relationships, and we want to explore sexuality to its fullest extent, I will tell you things that get in the way, right, or past traumas, right? A lot of sexual abuse among young women, right? I think NIH reports, one in three, but I can tell you in 20 years, you know, almost 100% of my clients, particularly women have sexual abuse in their background, and I can tell you in 20 years, you know, maybe 10 people, maybe 10 of my clients ever reported it to the authorities. So it’s more like one in one experience sexual abuse, right by adolescents. And so these things can interfere, right? They can really interfere with being vulnerable, and a person’s view on sexuality. Right? So those are the type of things that can, you know, really cause a problem, so to speak, right? And, look, we can send people for treatment for therapy, and around sexual trauma, and that’s great, and they can get better. But I would argue there’s still, you know, a hesitancy right, there’s an uncomfortableness when someone violates you at that level, right. I mean, we can certainly get better. But I think it’s, I think these type of things are solondz. Right. And that become extremely hard to get past in some way. Does that makes sense?
Matthew Hoffman 27:43
Kimberly Hoffman 27:43
it does. That’s a challenging thing to navigate in a relationship. And as you said, it’s really prevalent in a lot of relationships. Due to the percentage of people who are traumatized? And so what would your recommendation be to people who are really struggling with that?
Chris Cambas 28:01
Yeah, so I always make sure that that the, you know, the person you know, the offended, right, the person that they that the trauma happened to always make sure that they’ve had treatment, or, you know, we get them out to treatment, you know, trauma treatment in and around, you know, sexual trauma. And then, you know, for for their spouse, I just say, Listen, you know, it’s important that whatever they need in these moments, just be there and do that. Sometimes they need control. Right? Let them have complete control in the bedroom. Right. So so they’re not feeling you know, helpless or hopeless. In some ways, I see that a lot. People who have experienced sexual trauma, they need to be in control of the sex, which is fine, right? We can we can meet our partner there and, and be totally fine with that. But I just say, Listen, whatever your partner needs, right? Just do that. Right? Just do that at the same time. Right? The person with a history of sexual trauma has to realize their partner is not the offender. Right?
Matthew Hoffman 29:09
Chris Cambas 29:10
And so this is where therapy, you know, really is helpful. But it’s a it’s a tough thing, guys. It’s a very, very tough thing. And we see it every single day. And not just women. I mean, men are traumatized sexually as well. And that plays out in all kinds of different ways in relationships, right? I’ve seen them struggle from from sort of a gender identity perspective, right? So they were molested by other men when they were little. And then they’d always date women. Right? And they would struggle with this thought, Am I gay? Or am I straight? Right? And so under times of stress, when they were thinking about this, right, they would go out and they sleep with as many women as they possibly could, right in some way in their mind saying, Well, I’m not I’m not gay. And so it just goes back and forth. You know, sexuality is such a potent powerful thing, guys. You know, it’s, you know. You remember the movie Citizen Kane, right and the fireplace and then it slowly is building and building and building. And so it’s the fire in the fireplace in the house and under control, it brings warmth and comfort and love and whatnot in great surroundings to the household. When it gets out of that fireplace, it can really burn the house down in a lot of ways. And then it gets tangled up with all all these messages and preconceived notions that society has thrown out there for years. You know, one of the things that I love about the Got Sex series we’re talking about is this idea of deep anthologized. Right? For whatever reason, my field likes to pathologize everything. And so, you know, the thought of this, what if husband and wife are just making out and the husband has an orgasm? Right? Why can’t it just be I had an orgasm? Why does it have to be some dysfunction of, you know, premature, whatever? Right? And so we’ve so pathologized sex, right, that it just becomes, you know, an absolute mind disaster for people.
Matthew Hoffman 31:15
Yeah. So Chris, we talked about, you mentioned a few things of do’s and don’ts, but what are the biggest intimacy killers that you’ve seen and your practices or research or so people kind of know, you know, do that don’t do this? What’s that list include?
Chris Cambas 31:34
If we’re just talking straight to just straight about sex, right? Not relationship, as you said much, don’t just take your needs, right? Don’t just go into this thing. So I’m just taking my needs and ignoring you, right? It doesn’t work, people feel you’re not there, right, you’re just taking needs, and they feel used. So don’t do that. Right? Women feel this way a lot with their husbands, right. And then a lot of times, you know, men feel kind of left out, cuz, you know, they feel otherwise, they’re just sort of staring at the ceiling, you know, when they’re not present. I’d also say, particularly for men, when there’s young children in the home, realize that your wife, mom, to the kids is running around with children 24/7 365, barely has time to take a shower. And, you know, last thing she wants when someone gets home or someone else tugging on her, right? So take that into account and be you know, very much aware of that, that scenario. So I wouldn’t go into sex just trying to take my needs, right? I definitely definitely, definitely would say absolutely no, how no way do not violate boundaries. Right? If we’re if we’re not respecting people’s boundaries, they’re going to fear sundown. They’re absolutely going to fear sundown. And they’re going to feel sexually abused in that. Right. So, you know, we certainly can’t do that. So those are my, you know, kind of, you know, don’t do these things, right, they’re going to do absolutely turn relationships upside down, don’t go in just taking your needs making it all about you. And, you know, take into account when there’s young children at home, you know, your wife is going to be a little bit tired and not as sexual.
Matthew Hoffman 33:21
And having the conversation about boundaries, I think a lot of people think, you know, conversations about boundaries relative to sex is not just, Hey, I’m not going to do the bondage thing, or I am, it can be, I feel good about this. I don’t feel good about that. Right? And it’s understanding that so you don’t either knowingly or unknowingly, right? If you haven’t had the conversation and something happens, and that really sends someone up into the universe, you know, they lose it. If if their conversation hasn’t happened, and there’s no awareness, it’s really tough to hold somebody to a standard they’re not aware of. And
Chris Cambas 33:59
We can’t ask people to violate conscience.
Matthew Hoffman 34:03
Chris Cambas 34:05
There’s some things are going to be okay for me sexually. Same with my wife, there’s just stuff that’s not going to be right. And if we forced the person into that, we’ve just entered into abuse, right? And the relationship is going to start collapsing. Because now you’re my abuser. And I hear you. That make sense?
Matthew Hoffman 35:05
Kimberly Hoffman 35:06
Kimberly Hoffman 35:14
Well, I think that, you know, I want to go back just really quick to a small example of, you know, fulfilling your own needs and just sort of moving on. I feel like, you know, there are a lot of times that there will be sexual intimacy, and a guy might roll over and just, okay, go to sleep. No more words, nothing. And what I think isn’t realized in that moment is that, Hey, turn towards your partner have some pillow talk, it might, it might even lead to a round two. Right? So it’s an example of,
Matthew Hoffman 36:19
Oh, I’m gonna do a mia culpa right here. Not anymore. I’ve learned I’ve grown, I’ve stepped beyond it. But in our conversations that we’ve had, she would say, you know, I love the intimacy and the fact that we’re together, she said, But you know, what I love most is the closeness afterwards, the harassing the physicality, the talk, the conversation, bearing the emotions and the feelings. And so, you know, she kind of said, when that is not there, I’m missing it. And so it was really important for me to learn how to do that. And, and, and I had to learn, but it came through conversation and, and her sharing with me, hey, this is really important to me. Because I didn’t know I thought, hey, I feel this way. She must feel that way, too.
Kimberly Hoffman 37:11
I just want to give our listeners an example of going about.
Chris Cambas 37:16
And I think the idea of foreplay leading up to sex, right is an important part, you know? I mean, obviously, they weren’t like
Matthew Hoffman 37:24
Chris isn’t, hey, do you want to have sex?
Chris Cambas 37:26
Right? So I think there’s, you know, I think, for the most part, we want to have foreplay. Obviously, couples have quickies here and there. But I mean, this idea of courting my partner, maybe throughout the day, or in that evening, you know, and building into intercourses. You know, a preferred way. And I think the older that we get, and I’m speaking in general terms, the idea of having emotional connection becomes a primary thing, just from a performance perspective, right? The idea of just feeling an emotional connection, just even to be able to perform. And then, you know, obviously afterwards spending time talking and not just going to sleep, right? I mean, that’s, that’s kind of a turning away, right. Turning away so I think it’s, you know, some good time to have conversation and, and relax and you can fade off to sleep together as you’re having conversation. Yeah. So flirting and teasing. You’re saying is I send my wife all kinds of goofy memes all day long. I’ll tease. I’ll send her you know, flirty memes and all kinds of stuff. I call her fat mama pH fat. Right.
Matthew Hoffman 38:46
That’s the good fat right?
Chris Cambas 38:47
Yeah, we have shirts, fat mama and Fat Daddy. Right? And we have fun. So I’ll send her flirty text and flirting memes and you know, those type of things. And we have a good time flirting is great. You know, it’s way of turning toward and
Kimberly Hoffman 39:01
Matthew Hoffman 39:02
Yeah another another deposit. So Chris, what if you had to break it down? If you had to put a line on a piece of paper and say, here’s where women are? And here’s where men are? What are the what do men and women have in common? Or where do they differ relative to sex and intimacy and their perceptions and desires? Like so we can understand those differences. What have you seen in your practice? And on that?
Chris Cambas 39:28
I think for the most part, men and women are that different, right? I think women last a little differently than men. Right? Men are, you know, undressing a woman and thinking straight you know purely about sex. It’s not like women don’t do that because they do but though, you know, more generalized form of losting it’s like you know, what would be like to walk down the beach and have conversation or, you know, different things like this, right. So, again, it’s not that women don’t last sexually they do but I think generally speaking, you know, last you know, kind of happens in a little bit different way, at least what I see here, right? What what the women talk about here. Again, that’s not precluding the idea that they, they lost sexually, you know, they do. So I think that the real differences that I see our men are thinking about the act, right, they’re thinking about just the act and having sex and women are thinking much more about, you know, relationally more about the entire emotional component, right? They’re thinking about connecting, emotionally collect, you know, connecting within the relationship, which, you know, really kind of leads them to sexuality. It’s not new news, but it’s true news, right? We’re men, what is it working? Men have sex, you know, roofing, right? You know, women are sort of kind of not that way. Right. And listen, I don’t I don’t beat up on men for their sex drive. I think it has to do with perpetuation of life, right? It’s just kind of like an inherent internal drive for, you know, perpetuating the species, so to speak. But I think men have just abused it through the centuries. Right? They’ve abused it through the centuries, and a lot of damage has been done. So I think just a recognition for the guys that sex is going to be much more about just the physical act. Right? I get back to the idea. This is an intermingling of two souls, right? An intermingling of two souls two souls in this spiritual dance, right? I think is the way we really need to look at this thing. And I believe that’s where you’re gonna find passionate sex. You know, my soul is literally connecting with yours. Right? I don’t know how much more passionate you could possibly get than that. Sure, all the physical sensations, that’s wonderful. If we’re talking about really being filled at a sexual intimacy level, I think the idea of thinking of this idea of into two souls dancing, I think that’s what we shoot for. and gotten would call that personal sex.
Matthew Hoffman 42:04
Yeah. Love that.
Kimberly Hoffman 42:05
So who’s got it? Right? Can you think of examples of people who would be a great mentors who are modeling all of this in the right way?
Chris Cambas 42:16
Any mentors that come to mind, in my mind, I’ve really had one mentor in my entire life, that I mean, really, really, really took the time and it’s poured into me consistently over 20, 25 years. So a friend of mine, his name is Wales, Goble. He’s like 96 years old, an old country preacher, traveling evangelist, you know, out of Alabama. And I mean, this was the first man that ever entered into my life and, you know, took me in and just mentored me as a son. And so when I, you know, my model for marriage is always look at him and Miss Jean his wife. And I mean, it has been a loving, caring, just the absolute, quintessential, quintessential picture of what relationships should be the love and care and tenderness and kindness that they show toward each other on a day by day basis, the way that they treat one another, and just how they handle one another, whether in public or private. It is certainly admirable, for sure. Something you don’t see in culture today. True, true, true old fashion couple. Really, really, really sweet people for sure. So only purse people, I can think off the top of my head. You know, that’s, that’s been my only real true example of for sure.
Matthew Hoffman 43:33
Yeah. Well, go ahead. I’m sorry.
Chris Cambas 43:38
I’d like to be that example for somebody.
Matthew Hoffman 43:41
Kimberly Hoffman 43:41
Absolutely. And I think you are.
Matthew Hoffman 43:43
Yeah in a lot of ways
Kimberly Hoffman 43:45
And you’ve been that for us.
Chris Cambas 43:46
Oh, thank you. Thank you.
Kimberly Hoffman 43:48
you, you and Laurie as well.
Chris Cambas 43:50
Yeah, I mean, you know, there’s always still lots of work to do, right. So we are as always thinking about, you know, how we can make our relationship better and just connect more or like everybody else, guys. Yeah, one thing is clear that the research is very clear. We’re all in the same soup together, we all have the same struggles, right? We’re all trying to figure this thing out, and connected, and the desire to make that connection. So Chris, we’ve talked about, Gosh, we’ve covered a bunch of stuff, but is there anything that we haven’t talked about, that we should have or any kind of parting thoughts? So you think things that people need to be aware of as they’re approaching? How do we make it the best it can be?
Chris Cambas 44:33
I think if we’re going to make sex the absolute best, it can be the absolute best it can be. I have to realize I have to realize and look at you as a separate human being keyword, separate human being with your own thoughts, feelings and emotions. And I’m going to have to turn towards those and I’m going to have to attune right, I’m gonna have to emotionally attune. But the big thing is realizing you’re separate human being with your own thoughts, feelings and emotions, I’m gonna have to take that into consideration and deal with all of that way before we ever get to intercourse. I think that’s key idea of seeing you as a separate keyword, a separate human being, with your own thoughts, feelings and emotions. And they have to take all that into consideration before we’re ever going to make to the bedroom.
Matthew Hoffman 45:23
Yeah, it’s training, it’s pre work, it’s preparation. It’s anything you do in life that you want to do, well, you don’t just say, I’m gonna go do this. If it’s a marathon, you’re training and you’re running, if it’s a new work, a new product you’re releasing in your company, there’s trial and error, there’s research, right? I mean, there’s so many things, because it would be silly to say, I’m gonna go run a marathon tomorrow, if I haven’t been running, maybe I could do it, but the damage would be horrible. So and I think that we have to take that same approach with sex and intimacy is how we’re prepared for it, how we approach it together. And the investment in time and commitment that’s leading up to it is what’s going to make it what we really would desire it to be.
Chris Cambas 46:06
Yeah, I think the other thing that we haven’t touched on is the idea of acceptance, right? So spend time getting to know you. And now I know who you truly are. Work scars, flaws, good things, bad things, everything in between. And I accept all of you. So now. So I have this giant spotlight, I see you for who you truly are, and the ability to fully know you and fully accept you. Right. That’s the cure for shame to be fully known and fully accepted. That’s the beauty of 12 Step rooms. Right. And so, to be able to, to fully know you and fully accept you, I think those are absolutely critical to produce great sex. We’re looking for two souls dancing in the night. Right to be fully known and fully accepted. And I think that’s the cure for shame. And I think once that’s in place, boundaries for sex, expand exponentially.
Matthew Hoffman 47:01
Kimberly Hoffman 47:01
Chris Cambas 47:02
Kimberly Hoffman 47:04
Because you feel safe.
Chris Cambas 47:06
Totally. I know you completely you know me completely. Right. I’m not going to harm you in any way. You know, all my goofiness. I know your goofiness you know my great stuff, I know your great stuff. Right, and we have fun, right, we can be completely vulnerable. That’s the idea. That’s the identity. And that’s the very thing that our soul needs. But it’s the very thing that we run from, because we’re afraid of being shaped
Matthew Hoffman 47:35
Chris Cambas 47:36
So it’s very cure, the very cure that we need, we run from it. Right to be fully known and fully accepted as to care for shame, yet, we don’t allow ourselves to be fully known. And in turn the potential being fully accepted, right? So there’s always this distance, like couples never really get to this point of really, truly connecting at soul levels, because I don’t fully know you. And you don’t fully know me. Like I hang on to this stuff. Because if I tell you, you’re going to think I’m a freak, right? You’re gonna think I’m crazy. And so I hold on to this, when in fact, we all think the same stuff.
Kimberly Hoffman 48:16
Yeah, I know. And when we do open up and we are vulnerable, the sky’s the limit. It’s beautiful thing.
Matthew Hoffman 48:26
We’re still answering after 29 years, Chris, and it’s a fun, it’s a fun dance. And so Chris, you are doing so many great things. We’re talking a little before the episode right now. If people want to connect with you, and hear more about what you’re doing, where should they go? Where can they find you?
Chris Cambas 48:44
I think the easiest place to pick me up at is either couple strong.com or national marriage seminars.com Either one of those, you know, all the same information is going to be in either place, but that’s where that’s where I’m out doing most of the work. I have my private practice. But I’m filled to the rim. You know, I mean, it’s it’s a nonstop assault. But for more, you know, exposure kind of getting out there and trainings and stuff like that national marriage seminars.com or couple strong.com Those are the two big pluses.
Matthew Hoffman 49:14
Kimberly Hoffman 49:15
Awesome, Chris, we we never get tired of talking to you. We love spending time with you. And we’re so grateful for you. I just want you to know that.
Chris Cambas 49:25
Yeah, I’m grateful for you guys. We need to come out and bring some wine with me.
Kimberly Hoffman 49:29
That’s exactly right.
Matthew Hoffman 49:30
No we won’t turn that down as the thing you we all hate right? And we’ll have to get that fat mama PHAT that is
Kimberly Hoffman 49:38
to come with you
Matthew Hoffman 49:38
to come with you so we can we can have a couples dance and more fun together.
Chris Cambas 49:44
That’d be awesome.
Matthew Hoffman 49:46
Yeah, thanks for joining us today. What a fun, a great topic and we’re learning and there’s so much more to learn. We haven’t gotten through everything but we appreciate you. And you know, we want you to remember just one last thing
Kimberly Hoffman 50:00
Happily ever after doesn’t just happen, it’s on purpose.
Chris Cambas 50:03
I agree. Absolutely. Discipline, commitment, right?
Matthew Hoffman 50:08
Discipline and commitment, there you go.
Kimberly Hoffman 50:10
Take care, Chris.
Matthew Hoffman 50:11
Our pleasure, thanks, Chris.