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Kickass Couples Podcast

Marriage Success: How to Fulfill Your Spouse’s Dreams – Ep. 85 – Lesley Logan & Brad Crowell

By January 11, 2023No Comments



lesley, relationship, people, brad, parents, communication, hear, talking, fun, life, conflict, commitment, dating, married, patience, important, conversation, thought, person, work


Lesley Logan, Matthew Hoffman, Brad Crowell, Kimberly Hoffman


Matthew Hoffman  07:30

Welcome back to the Kickass Couples Podcast. We are thrilled to have another East Coast west coast, Cali, Carolina connection going on with Lesley Logan and Brad Crowell. Welcome to our podcast, guys. 


Brad Crowell  07:42

Thanks. But we moved.


Lesley Logan  07:44

 Yeah, we live in Las Vegas.


Matthew Hoffman  07:45

Vegas, Nevada, I knew that.


Brad Crowell  07:47

 We bet we were in Cali for 15 years. So don’t worry, that’s fine.


Lesley Logan  07:50

It’s okay. 


Matthew Hoffman  07:52

Long history


Lesley Logan  07:54

We see people now for the first time since the pandemic and they’re like,  so how’s LA? I’m like, I have no idea what they’re like, still and I’m like, this isn’t temporary, we bought a house.


Matthew Hoffman  08:05

Viva Las Vegas.


Kimberly Hoffman  08:06

 There you go.


Brad Crowell  08:07

 Oh, yeah. 


Matthew Hoffman  08:08

Well, we’re still quite to the coast, but it’s pretty flipping far out there.


Lesley Logan  08:13

We’re West Coast in mentality. When we moved here, I was like, do I say I’m on the West Coast? Or do I see I live out west or do I? He’s like, just say, Nevada. And I was like, all right. I live in Nevada.


Matthew Hoffman  08:27

Well, I’ve had the pleasure of meeting you guys before and spending a little time with you, which is why we’re here today. And I would like to hear it in your own words. And Lesley, I’m gonna start with you. I’d like to know what you think makes you and Brad a kick-ass couple.


Lesley Logan  08:42

So this is an interesting question because I feel like I should ask people what makes us a kick-ass couple. Do you know what I mean? I’m gonna take a 30,000-foot view of our relationship and I think it is pretty kick-ass that we’re pretty unique at working together. I think that that’s pretty kick-ass and that we leave each other to do our own work in our business together and we let each other be our own person. I think that’s really cool. And I also think it’s really cool that we both love to travel so much and we are excited about doing the off-the-beaten-path stuff. So I think that’s pretty kick-ass. I don’t know. That’s my observation.


Brad Crowell  09:24

That’s so funny. We didn’t, we didn’t talk about this. So I was actually gonna say I think the thing that makes us a kick-ass couple is that we’re both individuals. And what I mean by that is when we met she didn’t need me for shit. Am I allowed to use four-letter words? I hope


Kimberly Hoffman  09:46

You can.


Matthew Hoffman  09:46

Yeah, you can. I won’t bleep them out either. We’ve got a whole spectrum going, baby.


Brad Crowell  09:51

You know she had her own life. You know, before we even met.  Car, job, business, clients, friends, dog, I mean, all the things, place to live all of it. And when we met, you know, we were kind of running parallel lives. And she didn’t need me at all. And I think that’s partly how our relationship blossomed because there was like, effectively, very little dependency. And it allowed us to just be friends.


Lesley Logan  10:25

Yeah. And we did that for a while until I broke my leg. And then he had to move in because I couldn’t do anything. 


Matthew Hoffman  10:32

Was that a play Lesley?


Lesley Logan  10:33



Matthew Hoffman  10:33

 Did you do that on purpose?


Kimberly Hoffman  10:34

Did that happen on purpose? 


Lesley Logan  10:37

So actually, Backstory real quick. We lived when we lived in LA, we lived on the west side, and I had all these girls who were like, didn’t Brad live in the valley? And for all of you who don’t know the map, the valley is just like a more affordable place to live in LA, but you live over the hill, and no one gets like, if you live on the west side, gonna go over the hill, or vice versa unless you have to work. And so they’re like, how did you get Brad to move over the hill and move in with you? And I said, Well, I broke my Tibia, and they’re like, Okay, so I have to break a leg. I’m like, I wouldn’t do that. What if they? What if they don’t move? And then you are alone?


Kimberly Hoffman  11:11



Brad Crowell  11:14

is Pretty hilarious. Yeah.


Kimberly Hoffman  11:16

That’s great. What I love though, what I hear you both saying is that you’re both very individual and had your own separate lives. But then when you decided to come together, it just made everything better yet, you still stayed very independent.


Brad Crowell  11:32

Yeah, I think so.


Lesley Logan  11:35

I let him cook for everyone at dinner. That’s like, that was the thing. I was like, Well if you do that, that sounds great. It’s better than I was gonna do.


Kimberly Hoffman  11:43

After you moved in to leave after that, or is that you? Did you move in at that point?


Brad Crowell  11:47

I never left. Yeah, yeah, it was, it was actually it was. It was actually quite funny. Because, you know, my love language is like an act of service. It’s very important to me. And she broke her leg and had crutches like literally couldn’t carry a plate to the nonexistent table that she didn’t own, but couldn’t even move around. So, you know, the first night I came, I stopped by her place after work. And she was sitting on the counter, eating food on the kitchen counter with her crutches, leaning up against the sink. And I was like, how about I help you move somewhere else, like, anywhere else? And then, a month later, basically, I hadn’t gone back to my apartment once, and I realized, Oh, I gotta pay rent. But I haven’t been there. I was like, Well, that’s what I said. Or like, what if I didn’t have to pay rent? And she’s like, well, you’d have to pay rent. You can probably let go of that rent.


Lesley Logan  13:02

Yes. So he moved into my 500-square-foot apartment. So I had been living there for a year. And then he moved in. So we lived in that place together for six years. 


Brad Crowell  13:14

Six or seven, yeah.


Lesley Logan  13:15

Six or seven years together. And so you know, maybe what makes us kick ass is we can live in 500 square feet. And in the house, we live in now and like, it’s all good. 


Lesley Logan  13:25

Yeah, basically.


Kimberly Hoffman  13:28

Very kick ass.


Brad Crowell  13:32

Plus we have two dogs


Kimberly Hoffman  13:35

I want to take you guys back a little bit. I want to talk a little bit about your history because I believe that we are the product of the people who raised us in many cases. And so I’m curious, Brad, what did love look like in your family when you were growing up as a child?


Brad Crowell  13:52

So my parents are connected at the hip. Like, in literally every way. They have worked at the same company for 30 years. For two years. I don’t even know. They’re married for 42 I think now. They, you know, commuted, ate lunch together, commuted home, cooked dinner together, you know, like all the family. I think my dad would like to mow the lawn. They were separated by, you know, and so, I don’t know, I just grew up in a very family community-based home. And so my expectation of love was, oh, yeah, once you got a partner, you do literally, you probably breathe at the same time. I mean, you know, that was my understanding, of a relationship. And that didn’t work, for me. And I had a very messy, previous marriage. And from that, I think it made me look at myself and evaluate all of those kinds of things. And, you know, when one of the things that I always talk about is like, we argued over the dumbest stuff, like, like, Where’s the knife block, go on the kitchen counter, you know, because it’s better for cooking over here. Like, why and it became a big fight. And like, after, you know, after you go through a divorce, and you’re analyzing every conversation you ever had, you make decisions, and I decided that shit did not matter. And I don’t know why I made as much of a deal out of it as I thought           I did previously. And so I kind of upended most of the things that I had learned and expected from my childhood.


Kimberly Hoffman  15:58

And how did your parents model love for you? What did it look like? Were they affectionate with each other? How did they express their love for each other?


Brad Crowell  16:09

Yeah, I think my parents kissed like my grandparents. You know, it was like, like, a little like, like, and maybe it was on the cheek like, I mean, I hardly remember seeing my parents being physically intimate in front of us. You know, they were there. They would touch each other, like shoulder kind of thing, or maybe hold hands, sometimes every once in a while hug. But it was not, there was no love, and there was nothing playful about it. From our perspective as kids, it was very proper, if that makes sense. From a traditional perspective, I remember a couple of years ago, being back home for Christmas, and I watched my grandmother and my grandfather kiss each other. Like just a peck, but I remember, like, nudging my brother and going like, I don’t think I’ve ever seen them kiss in my life. 


Kimberly Hoffman  17:07



Brad Crowell  17:08

 That’s the first time. Yeah.


Kimberly Hoffman  17:10

How about you, Lesley, how was love modeled for you when you were a child?


Lesley Logan  17:14

Pretty much the opposite of his. So my parents were not really connected to him, although my mom wanted it that way. She was very codependent on her and her love. And my dad was trying to be very independent. His parents did not show up or tell him he was loved or hold him or anything. And my mom’s parents were 16 and 17, when they had her, so that was its own party. And so then they came together. And they loved us a lot. We never liked being told we were loved. And we hugged. And my dad’s definitely an act of service person. Like he would always make breakfast for us before he left for work. And he packed our school lunches, but they fought hard. They fought loud, they fought hard, and then they’d kick us out of the house so they could have sex. So they knew what they were doing and that was very open. So for me, and my grandparents, my mom’s parents were very similar. Like, they were like, No, you can’t come over tonight, we’re having sex. So like it was very much like couples who are married, are affectionate, and are open with their feelings. Whatever those feelings are, even though my dad’s side was the complete opposite, like, I don’t think I ever saw my grandparents kissing, they did not share a bedroom. So you know, so for us and for me, I knew it was like I wanted parts of that, that I saw, I think there was some good healthy stuff. And then there and then also, like, I just was like, I don’t want to fight loudly over everything like everything was loud fighting. So I was like, how do you communicate when you’re upset about something without the neighbors knowing, that would be a really cool thing to have in a relationship. So I was looking for that.


Kimberly Hoffman  18:56

Sure. And we’re gonna get into communication in a little bit. But it sounds like neither of you really experienced a lot of affection or a lot of physical touch in your or you actually saw it in your parents when you were little. So what was it like when you came together? Were you able to do that easily? Is that something that you’ve had to feel more comfortable with, going forward?


Lesley Logan  19:21

You know, when I was younger, my parents would dance in the living room. So I definitely had seen that. But I will say my parents should probably have divorced when I was probably quickly there after that. They did eventually and so I think I got to see it in the beginning and then just didn’t see it modeled later. I mean, touch is my love language. So I like it. I love the acts of service. It’s really cool to help build me a website or cook dinner for me, but like holding my hand or walking down the street or giving me a hug or things like that, that lights me up and that’s actually like, way better for me to understand. So I do seek it out. Now, for sure. I’m aware that I need that.


Matthew Hoffman  20:03

Was it easy for you guys to come together and say this is how we got to dance together with our backgrounds? Was that a conversation that did it was trial and error? How did that occur? How did you guys take those two backgrounds and come to a great working situation for your relationship?


Lesley Logan  20:18

Well, it took us nine months to go on our first date. So like, I think, and we’re both very verbal. So I think we talked a lot, but not actually about ourselves. We talked about, I remember us talking a lot about our past relationship because we both had just come out of having a heavy relationship. And so we would like to process that relationship or past ones together. So I think instead of us trying to go, what do you need? What do I need? We learned what each other needed through their own processing of their experience.


Brad Crowell  20:51

Yeah. To answer your question, Kim, my parents were very supportive of us as kids. And they were like, you know, like, it was normal for my parents to hug us or anything like that, you know, so I don’t think that I like I didn’t see them be, like sexually intimate it like at all in front of us. But they were still physical. Yeah, they were still affectionate. But like, it wasn’t, it was never like, there was never any impropriety if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, I didn’t. I don’t think that that was something that was weird. So when we got together, I mean, definitely. I think it was like, also, my last relationship was not really physically intimate, hardly at all. And so when we both expressed the desire that that was something we’re interested in, that became exciting. And that was something that definitely helped, you know, bring us together. But as Lesley said, I mean, we didn’t actually, it wasn’t consistent, like seeing each other for roughly nine months. And I definitely had a lot to a lot of the decision for that was my fault that’s for damn sure.


Lesley Logan  22:22

Whenever people hear the story of how we got together if we tell the full story, which we don’t have time for today, we’ll tell the full story. People get so mad at Brad, halfway through that they’re like, they’re in this conflict with themselves because they know him and they know we’re together now. But they’re like, so angry at him in the story.


Brad Crowell  22:43

We also kind of


Matthew Hoffman  22:46

I can say, Brad, that by experience, this is a phrase I’ve heard come up when people say, How did you guys meet? We kind of look at each other like, Oh, your turn? No, it’s much and I did it last time. And I get a similar comment from her. She goes, Well, you know, he was pining over somebody else. And he had you know, he did this. And they’re like, why? You did? Why? 


Brad Crowell  23:06



Matthew Hoffman  23:07

How many times I have to be the middleman? Right? 


Brad Crowell  23:09

Yeah. How many times? Did I have to break up with her? What?


Matthew Hoffman  23:12

Yeah, so I can relate. And we don’t have to go there. But I’ll just give a  knowing nod and say, I understand because I want to jump into our three C’s. And the three C’s are kind of what we think are most important. We have 14 pillars, but the three C’s are commitment, communication, and conflict resolution. So 


Brad Crowell  23:31



Matthew Hoffman  23:31

Lesley, I’d like to ask you to say what does commitment look like to you and your relationship? Hmm.


Lesley Logan  23:39

That’s a good question. So, while we are very individual, we are very clear on what the other person needs, and to feel loved in their relationship. And I think commitment is not just like, yes, touch is my love language, but if acts of service are his, I am committed to making sure he feels seen and loved in that way. And I know he does that for me as well. So I think it’s not just like the typical like we’re committed to each other. And like, that’s where things are, and there’s no one else in our relationship. But it’s actually like I am committed to going out of my way to make sure that you feel seen and loved in your way while still being myself which I think that’s also another part of a commitment that I think people might not realize, like who he fell in love with. Like I’m gonna evolve and change as a person, but it’s important that I am still working on being myself so that there’s someone here to love you know, we don’t need to lose out on like those things that each other fell in love with. So I think it’s committed to the other person’s way and also like staying committed to what makes you, you.


Matthew Hoffman  24:43

That’s beautiful.


Kimberly Hoffman  24:44

Yeah, it’s a great answer. I hope our listeners can hear what you’re saying and maybe do a little bit of that in their own relationships.


Matthew Hoffman  24:52

Yeah, how about for you Brad? What does commitment look like to you when you look at your relationship with Lesley?


Brad Crowell  25:02

I’ve always considered a commitment a, like, it’s a kind of part of morality and a decision, you know? You know, where ultimately we all are in relationships, we all know that things aren’t always perfect. But you made that decision. That’s your commitment, right? And there’s a reason because you both want to go somewhere together in life. And I think it’s worth talking about those things again, especially, I mean, we’ve been married for seven years now. But I know, very early on, I remember thinking like, my personal goals in life were not exactly the same as her personal goals in life, but there was kind of like a parallel direction that we were going, and it made sense to mesh them. Because, you know, it was like, for example, I was a touring musician. And I was actually like, in and out of town all the time. My favorite drug of choice is travel. And like, if I can be on the road, that’s what I want to do. And when we started talking, she was like, oh, yeah, well, you know, I’m gonna fly here and do a workshop and speak at this event, and then fly there and do this. I was like, Oh, you’re, you’re kind of doing that too, in a different modality. And very early on, we realized, like, what would be an ideal life for us would be to work from anywhere. And so when we first got together, it was like, okay, cool. You know, that’s an amazing thing that would make me want to live life, and so it was more than just like this emotional connection, that this commitment was made towards it was about living this life together. And so it’s like, it’s more than just the feel of it even. And so when I think about the commitment, I think of all I consider, you know, everything that’s a part of that, and how, how good I know we have it, how good I have it, especially when it compared to my last commit, which really plagued me when that failed. So yeah.


Kimberly Hoffman  27:31

How about communication? Let’s talk a little bit about that. It’s really vital in a relationship, as we well know. But tell me a little bit about how you all communicate and what communication looks like in your relationship with each other.


Lesley Logan  27:47

Yeah, so I think we have different communication styles in a lot of ways, mostly, because I’ll often think about something so much, I’ll feel like I’ve told him already. And usually, I have. Sometimes I’ll start the thing halfway through the thought, and he’s like, I don’t even know where you’re at. I was like, Oh, you weren’t there, at the beginning of that conversation, let me bring you back to it. But so we joke about it. But we, because we both had our own careers when we first started dating. And when we got married, or I was trying to plan our wedding, he was a project management tool for us to plan the wedding in. So we actually started working on communication back then. So like everything at the wedding happens in this tool. And that’s where we communicate about it. And so that actually started this interesting way of like, we try really hard not to text each other about work, unless it’s urgent, like, Hey, did you see this thing you need to do this thing, we try really hard to keep the text messages about us, and family and friends. We try to keep all of our communications with work in the appropriate channels. So that we can have time away from work and time together. And so that is I think, it’s a different way of understanding communication style. But I think especially for people who work together if you’re listening to this, like having separate places where work conversations happen versus life conversations is really key. The other thing is, we used to do this a lot and we have to bring it back, but we have white counters now and I don’t trust colorful posts. We used to leave a post for each other to communicate like a thought or a love note or something like that. And so I feel like we also try in different ways to, throughout the day, surprise each other with some communication that they might not be expecting all good stuff, of course, but like, we try to, like, you know, go oh, hey, love you, by the way. And it’s like, out of the blue, you know, or you’re really beautiful, like, just in those places. So I don’t know if that truly answers your question. But that’s where my brain went with, like, how do we communicate? And what’s our style in that? Yeah.


Brad Crowell  29:40

Oh, 100%. I’m gonna, I’m gonna jump in and answer that.


Kimberly Hoffman  29:40

No, it does. And I liked that you shared that you actually separate your communication, work communication versus personal and family communications. I think you’re the first couple that we have talked to and we’ve been talking a lot to people who work together and have businesses together that actually have separated that communication. And I think that’s an interesting concept. And so, I’d like to know, do you feel like that’s really worked for you? Has that been a benefit to you?


Kimberly Hoffman  30:14



Brad Crowell  30:15

 My past career was, like, the highest amount of stress that was all unnecessary. And  I would get texts, like, all day, you know, at night day, there were no boundaries, nothing like that. And it made me dread looking at my phone. Like, always, if my phone rang, my heart would jump, you know, and it was like, I can’t operate like this, I’m gonna, I’m gonna die at like, 45 If I keep functioning like this. And so that was one of the things that, like, when we were planning the wedding, it was like, Well, we both were working pretty long hours at the time. And so we had this project management tool and that allowed us to spend the time that we did have together instead of like, you know, did you order the balloons kind of a conversation, we could just hang out together and spend time together because we knew that that communication was already happening somewhere. And it was like, once we succeeded with that, we planned and executed the wedding in four months. It was just kind of the next most obvious step when we eventually started working together,I mean, we even have a Slack channel, just for the two of us. Like we had created our own slack. And it was like anything that has to do with bills and running our household. We should do that in Slack. And then that way we could text each other fun things.


Matthew Hoffman  31:46

Great idea. Love that.


Brad Crowell  31:49

Yeah,  it made it so I didn’t have to stress out when I looked at my phone. So yeah.


Kimberly Hoffman  31:53



Matthew Hoffman  31:53

Yeah, those triggers are no fun. So we talked about commitment and a little bit about communication. And then there’s conflict resolution. Because, you know, as strong as you think you are, as much as you love that person, there’s going to be differing opinions or just flat-out disagreement. That’s the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard. Right? And so when those conflicts or disagreements arise in your relationship, Brad, I’d love for you to answer this first, how do you guys deal with conflict or resolve things when you guys don’t see eye to eye?


Brad Crowell  32:21

I think that we’ll just speak to ourselves here. But, this comes back to being two individuals, right? And I think, well, I will speak for her. I think we both demand respect from each other, from that, you know, that sense. And I think that when you’re married, or even just long, longtime friends, you forget. It’s easy to forget that people are, you know, still a person. It’s not like, you’re not like, you know, you’re not one, everything, you know, you’re still like, hey, wait a minute, you know, you’re not respecting my time, you’re not respecting my, you know, whatever, dinner, live conversation, whatever. And I think we make assumptions for the other person. And, you know, that gets my, my, the hair on my neck up sometimes. And so when that has happened, I’ve made a point to say, hey, wait a minute, I don’t like that, or I don’t like how you talked to me, or I don’t like this kind of a thing. And I know. I mean, also, she has done similarly. But I know that because we made a commitment to each other. It’s allowed us to be like, Oh, okay, hold on. Let me actually evaluate that, like, what do I really want here? Do I want to be right in this exact situation or they’re calling me out on this thing? And like, is that the important thing? Or is this commitment that we made to each other the important thing? And am I willing to take a deep breath? And like, reset and decide, like, you know, that this thing that they’re, they’re pushing back on me on, Like, am I right on this? Or can I change the way I’m thinking about that?


Lesley Logan  34:19

Well, I think it’s usually like, it’s either in the moment or as close to appropriately at the moment. So if you’re like, hey, when you said that this bothered me, and this is why you do that? I think also like, I grew up hearing the same fight over and over again, and I knew I never wanted that. Or a parent would wait until there were like 17 things to fight about and then they bring them all they just like and then like it was and there’s this and there’s this and there’s this it’s like, that isn’t also helpful. So I wanted to make sure that when something bothered me or upset me that I brought it up as soon as I could, so it was close to the actual event. Cause like If you don’t like people be like, What are you talking about? That was like four days ago, and you’ve been acting like, everything’s normal, you know what I mean? So I try to do it pretty close. And then I try before I do it, I try to make sure like, what part of it is just activating something from my life that wasn’t that person’s fault? And like, how do I handle that myself? And what part of that like was like, actually, no, that like you, you actually wasted my time there, or I felt like you don’t like paying attention me and try to do it and in the moment, and then not, and then not bring up other things or other times when you’ve already dealt with them. You know, it’s like, well, and you didn’t and two years ago, and you did it last week, and you did it last month, I tried to keep it about that. So that you can actually resolve the conflict and move on to the next thing. And so it’s not waiting until things boil up. I think that’s also just really important. I mean, we work together y’all like we can’t, like you can’t really be mad at them, and then go to a meeting about Pilates. Like it doesn’t work. So like we kind of have to deal with it as it comes. Otherwise, the whole team is going to be like what’s going on with them?


Brad Crowell  36:01



Kimberly Hoffman  36:02

And that’s great for our listeners to hear. Because I think we can all get into a very bad habit of bringing that person back to the judgment place over and over again, for an issue that might have happened years ago, right? Let’s move on from that. Let’s not bring it up again. And let’s deal with things as they immediately come up. And sort of nip it in the bud right then.


Brad Crowell  36:27

Yeah, I used to hear it. I remember this, I don’t remember where I heard this, but it was like, some advice about not letting the day finish without resolving the conflict. You know, don’t go to sleep angry effectively or whatever.


Kimberly Hoffman  36:42



Brad Crowell  36:42

And I’m like, 90/10 on that, like, sometimes it’s like, okay, like, it’s better just to wait. But really, I think more often than not, we are you know, maybe we’ll leave a little space to cool off if things get that heated, which is infrequent, but has happened and but still going back and, and having some kind of conversation, or if there’s not a conversation, you know, just being with each other. And I think that that is like, even if there’s no verbal communication, there’s, you know, a physical or, or just the presence and the communication of your presence.


Lesley Logan  37:27

Well, I think because we work together, sometimes some of the conflicts have to do with things like, something’s not going right in the business. 


Brad Crowell  37:32



Lesley Logan  37:33

And like, it’s not like you it’s not he said you didn’t do this or like, it’s like, this isn’t working. And so then everyone’s a little stressed out. And then now you’re a little stressed out, you’re a little tired, things aren’t working in the business and then you go to make dinner, and then there’s so.


Brad Crowell  37:45

Well, we also operate on 100% different life schedules.


Lesley Logan  37:50



Brad Crowell  37:50

 So like her mind it is like, hyper, creative, and active in the AM. And mine is that but in the PM.


Lesley Logan  38:01



Brad Crowell  38:01

 And so if we like, if she comes in, she’s like, I have this idea. And I’m like,


Kimberly Hoffman  38:07

I need coffee.


Brad Crowell  38:09

 Okay, I can’t even process what you’re saying. And then on the flip side, she’s like, I can’t think right now. It’s, you know, nine o’clock, don’t get me wrong, don’t start throwing these ideas at me and so sometimes we have to be like, Alright, cool. Like, we actually started, we actually added a mid-middle day, 15-minute check-in of like, this is what I need from you right now. XYZ blah, blah, blah, or I have this idea. What do you think of it, generally speaking, in the middle of the afternoon, we both have our brains straight.


Lesley Logan  38:36

And it also resolves a lot of conflict from happening. Because if I’m exhausted, and you’re bringing me up work ideas or work problems or something, that’s where conflict happens. It’s like, I don’t want to be talking about this right now. I want to go to bed right now. And so  I think that it’s a work, it’s always a work in progress. I don’t think that we have a recipe for it. But also what I do like is sometimes it’s not like we’re gonna stay up till 2 am to figure this out. I’m gonna go to sleep. And then when I wake up, I’m gonna go for my walk. And I’ll probably figure it out where my ownership in that crap was, and I’ll figure out what I need from you. And then by the time you wake up, you’ll figure it out. And we can usually have like, a two-sentence conflict resolution. It’s like, Wow, maybe we should do this tomorrow. Like, you know, so? I don’t know, I think if it’s not working for you, at the moment, take a beat, go for a walk. You know, come back at it later. It doesn’t, it doesn’t mean you’re not, you’re avoiding it.


Kimberly Hoffman  39:26

Absolutely. Well, we have 11 other pillars in addition to the first three that we just talked about. And I’m going to ask you, Lesley, to go first. Can you give me one of those pillars that really resonates most with you and tell me why?


Lesley Logan  39:42

Fun and humor have to be done? Then for a while, like I even have if you want to work on the team, and any job one of our requirements is that you laugh out loud. And it’s just because life is pretty serious. It’s called a lot going on. There’s a lot of things to consider about others, about people, about what you’re doing here, what your purpose is, that’s like, there’s got to be some fun in it. And I think, especially for relationships, it can be easy for things to go into a routine, you know, we have routines, even as ourselves, like we have these routines that we have. So there’s gonna be some moments where things are fun, or we laugh. So, you know, even if it’s just like watching a comedy show, or, you know, or doing something different on a trip, like I just, I really love that. And when we don’t have that, it starts to be like, what’s going on? Like, what’s going on? This is what’s not, let’s spice it up with some fun and humor.


Brad Crowell  40:40

Yeah I was looking for spontaneity on that list, but I think it could fit in the fun part of it.


Kimberly Hoffman  40:45



Lesley Logan  40:46

Yeah, yeah. But that’s a key one for me. What’s yours?


Brad Crowell  40:49

Yeah. I think patience. I’m not sure. I’m not,


Lesley Logan  41:00

 You married the most impatient woman. 


Brad Crowell  41:02

Yeah, but that’s not true. That’s not That’s not true. I think we are massive proponents of a character test called Clifton Strengthsfinder, or Clifton. Yeah. Clifton Strengths. It used to be called strengths finder, 2.0. I don’t know if they rebranded and now it makes no sense. But I’ve often heard her say, well, that’s just not how he operates. And I know how he operates. So and that, to me, is kind of like the patience part of it. Patience isn’t quite the right word for it. But 


Lesley Logan  41:41

oh, yeah, I’m patient like that. I’m patient and like to port the progress of others.


Brad Crowell  41:45

Yeah, I think that we, again, are coming back to this idea of knowing ourselves, and being individuals. It allows us to realize, like, how we operate, what our strengths are, and then we are close enough, you know, haven’t been together for as long as we are, to understand the other person and how they operate, right? And so patience is usually like, well, I want him to get to this damn thing, but he’s a rebel. So I know he’ll get through it eventually. You know, like, kind of a thing. And so that’s kind of why I was coming with the patience part of it. You know, and, and, you know, I think that’s a two way street. You know, sorry, our dog is walking by here. But having an understanding of how the other person functions and thinks will give you patience when things don’t make sense.


Matthew Hoffman  42:42

Sure. So that deeper understanding and the trust to trust, if they say, you know, their heart, you know, who they really are, and you can trust them, and be patient. And that is one thing to be patient and something never happens like okay, well, I 


Brad Crowell  42:59



Matthew Hoffman  42:59

I waited, and I waited in vain, as opposed to I waited, and eventually, it happened. So I can trust that I can have that patience.


Brad Crowell  43:07

Well, I have lots of comments on that, you know, I think that comes back to communication. 


Matthew Hoffman  43:11



Brad Crowell  43:12

You know, like, if you’re waiting and waiting and waiting, hoping that they’ll change or whatever. And, you know, like, like, more likely than not they’re isn’t like a clear communication about the thing, your expectations, you know. Expectations are, you know, I think that’s part of my top three actual expectations. Because when you’re clear on your expectations with each other, then you know, well, you know, what you’re getting, you know, and because you’ve communicated those things clearly, and it also, it saves you so much conflict, it saves you so much anxiety, you know, because you’re not hoping that something will happen. You know?


Lesley Logan  43:55

Well, when we are dating, when we actually start we actually start to commit to each other and date and not date other people.


Brad Crowell  44:02

Which was an actual conversation. 


Lesley Logan  44:03

Was an actual conversation. 


Lesley Logan  44:05

We’re gonna just exclusively see each other now.


Lesley Logan  44:07

 And he had said, “ You know, I want us to just try dating just the two of us, but don’t ask me about marriage. And I said, Well, I want to get married someday. And if you ever realized that that’s not an option, then you have to break up with me please don’t wait for me to break up with you please don’t just like, don’t waste my time I’m not going to be this young ever again. So like 


Kimberly Hoffman  44:32



Lesley Logan  44:33

Just break this, do me a favor and break up with me. And so you know, that commit and so I was 


Brad Crowell  44:42

I thought that was massive that you know that she stuck up for what she wanted. I don’t know that I’ve met anyone else who would have been willing to actually draw a line in the sand. 


Lesley Logan  44:54

I was not gonna wait and hope for him to change his mind. No, I was like this. I’m not like we can keep


Brad Crowell  45:00

My prerequisite was don’t push me. 


Lesley Logan  45:02



Brad Crowell  45:03

That was literally my prerequisite. But there was a caveat, I’ve always seen myself getting married. But if you, you know, if you push this, if it’s not organic, it will not happen. But I’m open to it happening. So let’s explore that as we grow closer together, but just the simple fact that when I said don’t ask, don’t ask me about this, she said, Well, hold on, you know, this is my expectation. 


Kimberly Hoffman  45:32



Brad Crowell  45:32

It allowed me to understand that, you know, even though I was adamant that, like, don’t push me here. So yeah.


Kimberly Hoffman  45:41

Yeah. Communicating those clear expectations sounds like something that was really important to both of you in the beginning.


Matthew Hoffman  45:49

Yeah, that’s honesty. And that’s trust. And, you know, we talked about hope earlier. And there’s, I think the most dangerous drug in the world is hopium. Right? We all go, I hope you hope well, what you know, that means you’re thinking something’s gonna magically happen with no specific cause, reason, commitment, or investment. It’s just, it doesn’t, you’re lying to yourself. And so I’m not a believer of hopium. You know, I hope we all have dreams, right? And there’s a difference between a dream and a hope because hope has nothing attached to it whereas a dream can and can be more specific. But, you know, it sounds like you guys have done the work and been open and honest. And there’s a lot of good in your relationship, we can see that just from your interacting and talking with each other. I know from the success and growth of your business, the camaraderie, and the laughs that you have, how good Kim and I believe in a concept called overflow thinking. And we think when our relationship is strong, and firing and cylinders, and so much good is happening, it can’t help but overflow in other areas of our lives. And that this relationship is kind of the foundation of everything else. It’s not just that thing that’s over there on the side. So how have you seen Brad, your relationship with Lesley overflow into other parts of your lives?


Brad Crowell  47:08

Well I think it’s an interesting question the way you pose it, but I think that because we like, there’s a lot of ironies and what I said already, that the way my parents, you know,  is connected at the hip, they still are, that’s how they function. And Lesley and I still try to carve out time for ourselves in our relationship. But when it comes to like overflowing our relationship, it’s our whole life, we work together, and we live together, and we travel together and 


Lesley Logan  47:43

We work out together.


Brad Crowell  47:44

We work out together. So like, we’re definitely, you know, there are a few parts where like, I could go and stew on something, or, like, if I do that I’m intentionally leaving the house on purpose, kind of a thing so that I can get some space, you know, but, you know, the way we function in our personal relationship is pretty much how our business is run too. You know, it’s just a natural extension of who we are. So, you know, I think I hope our team will enjoy the fun that we like to have in life. But that just happens also in the business because it’s just the way we function.


Lesley Logan  48:31

Yeah, so I love this question. I think it’s very interesting because I actually tell people all the time that they can’t pour from an empty cup. And in fact, if your cup is half filled, it’s even worse, because if someone bumps you, or like someone cuts you off, when you’re driving or something like that, like, you feel like you’re gonna spill this last drop, and you’re not even sharing. So it’s like, oh, can I have a sip it’s like, no! Do you see how little I have?  And so I fully believe that we have to fill our cups first. So that we can be generous and kind and, really, and really fully be the person that we want to be on our best days and everything. And so I think that if your cup is full, and their cup is full, then as a relationship, the cup is full. And that’s the only way that it can overflow. So if he is running around a half-filled cup. I’m like, can you go take a nap? Like you should go to sleep. Because you’re gonna take some,  you’re not in a good mood.


Brad Crowell  49:22

 You’re not gonna show up well, for the team. 


Lesley Logan  49:25



Brad Crowell  49:25

 I think I think actually, that’s an amazing point is, you know, when we both are operating at full steam, then those things can spill over into the team, but if she’s like, in a good place, and I’m like, you know, a zombie because I haven’t slept or something, then it clearly affects everything, not just the team but also us.


Lesley Logan  49:47

So I  think first things spill out over into our team because of the first people that we probably talk to on a daily basis. 


Brad Crowell  49:54

Yeah, pretty much.


Lesley Logan  49:55

Always. But then I actually like it because everything I do is to help our members, you know, really truly see how they can make their lives better. I know just because I’m a creative person, we have to be overfilling for those moments to happen in a way that is organic and authentic, because if I’m trying to do it from a place of like, we’re not, not only we’re not overflowing was like the gas tank is on empty. Everything feels harder. So, I think it spills out first to our work because that’s what we do together. And then and then it goes to the people that are engaging with the work that we do. And then occasionally, because my family lives here, they get some of it, too.


Matthew Hoffman  50:41

There’s some left for even them, I love it. 


Lesley Logan  50:43



Kimberly Hoffman  50:43

 Well, I have one final fun question for you. And Lesley, I’m going to ask you first, if you could go back to your unmarried self, put your hands on your shoulders and give yourself one piece of advice. What would that advice be?


Lesley Logan  51:00

 Like my unmarried stuff like before, all this?


Kimberly Hoffman  51:03

Before all this, yes.


Lesley Logan  51:04

Oh, gosh. You know, I actually, that’s a piece of advice I give out to a lot of people. Stay single longer than you think. And, you know, be a lot pickier about the people that you are in a long-term relationship with.


Brad Crowell  51:24

Homegirl used to write a dating blog. She’s got lots of advice. I thought you were gonna say to try on lots of jeans. 


Lesley Logan  51:31

Oh, the jeans thing, I know. That was the advice I did give myself which is like, you know, basically like if people say, Oh, that person’s not my type. And it’s like your types are not working for you otherwise you’d be married to it like your view. So like the type of jeans that I was wearing, maybe they just outgrew them or they no longer look good on me or they’re not that they’re not stylish, but they just don’t flatter me as well. And so I went on a dating thing where I dated all types of jeans. And they were just the skinny ones. I was like, I’ve never dated skinny jeans before so we’ll try that.


Kimberly Hoffman  52:00

The skinny jeans won. 


Lesley Logan  52:03

They won.


Brad Crowell  52:04

Yeah, they did.


Lesley Logan  52:08

So I think I think that’s the advice. It’s like, you know, maybe patience, I should’ve taken that pillar. But also just like, I felt like there I felt this pressure to be in a relationship. And I think that I mean, I would never take any of it back because it led me to him. And I probably wouldn’t know, I don’t know what I have done if I hadn’t had the experience I had. But I feel like I really enjoyed being single once I gave myself that permission. It was a lot of fun.


Kimberly Hoffman  52:34

So I hear you saying to our listeners, be patient, don’t be afraid to be single, and have fun. And wait for the right one. 


Lesley Logan  52:41

Yes, please do. You’ll, you’ll thank yourself later.


Kimberly Hoffman  52:45

 How about you, Brad? What would you tell your unmarried self,


Brad Crowell  52:51

I would tell my unmarried self, shit doesn’t matter. Most of the things that we get pissed at each other about not her and I but like, when I think back to dating before and then my past relationship. The things that I thought were imperative, like, not important at all. Right? Like, what color is the car? Who gives a shit? You know, that stuff does not matter, it is not going to make it or break it. And if it is, that’s a problem. You know, and I think that comes back to what we were talking about with individuality. You know,  you’ve met and potentially married someone who is unique, and they’re individuals. But if we’ve got this list of expected changes that they’re going to make for you, you’re doing it wrong, because you’re you are you,  if they change the way that you expect them to change, then they’re not going to be the person that you fell in love with. They’re this weird molded thing that you somehow pre-conceived and that it’s going to take the joy, the fun, the excitement out of it. You are with someone who is unique. Remember that? And so they have quirks, we all have quirks, you know? And those things make them who they are.


Kimberly Hoffman  54:18

Right. Or the thought of their thought is oh, I can fix that. Or I can fix this. 


Brad Crowell  54:23



Kimberly Hoffman  54:24

 The reality is you are not going to be.


Brad Crowell  54:27

 I was alluding to that.


Matthew Hoffman  54:30

 I say if you’re not happy thinking it’s as good as it’s gonna get the day you’re committing, then it’s not good enough because if you don’t love it just the way it is and you’re not fulfilled and excited. We have seasons and we change and we become yes there’s even flow no doubt, but it’s not well it’ll be great when they dot dot dot 


Brad Crowell  54:52



Matthew Hoffman  54:52

Say this, do this, wear this, be this, help me this way, help me, whatever it is you got to just love who they are, that uniqueness because those flaws, those quirks are part of the things that make them who they are. 


Brad Crowell  55:04



Matthew Hoffman  55:04

Wanting to revel in that as opposed to, you know, pull against it.


Brad Crowell  55:08

I just remember hearing somebody, I don’t remember when, but years ago, talking about, like, the direction the toilet paper holes and like, somehow that was like a contention, a point of contention in their relationship. I’m like, That’s hilarious. And if that’s the biggest problem you have. Amazing, good for you. But like, also, if that’s a stumbling block, like if that’s the point where like, the hinge, like where the relationship goes out, like, No, we gotta we’ll let those things go, the date on that.


Lesley Logan  55:43

The dating games like do you push the toothpaste in the middle or the bottom? The bottom? Of course. And I’m like, Who? How can I even push the toothpaste out? I don’t even know. Like, why is that important, but it’s not saving the world is not changing lives? It doesn’t matter.


Brad Crowell  55:56

Yeah. Doesn’t matter. 


Matthew Hoffman  55:57

You guys, you guys think have a fantastic comprehension, understanding, and expression of what’s important. And what’s right? And it’s been fun to talk to you about how you’ve gotten there and to share some of your background and experience. If people want to learn more about the two of you and what you do, where do they go? And how can we tap into that?


Lesley Logan  56:19

Yeah, so if you want to hear us then you can listen to the ‘Be it till you see it Podcast.’ Brad comes on the recaps to talk about the guests that I interviewed that week. On social media, you won’t find him. So you can follow me at Lesley, L E S L E Y dot Logan L O G A N. And occasionally he makes appearances on that. But he’s one of those few people in the world who gets to post pictures of cactuses, or sunsets whenever he wants, he doesn’t really care. It’s a content schedule. So


Brad Crowell  56:52

Yeah, I definitely lucked out. But if you want to hear more about the business coaching we do. You can find us at ‘’ If you want to find out about the online Pilates classes, go to ‘’ And Lesley and I do retreats. So just connect with her on social media. Yeah. Come to Cambodia with us and enjoy exploring the different world.


Kimberly Hoffman  57:17

Well, thank you both so much. We have really enjoyed the interview and appreciate your authenticity. You’ve been a lot of fun today.


Lesley Logan  57:25

Thank you for these questions. So fun.


Matthew Hoffman  57:28

Our pleasure. We look forward to seeing you guys soon.


Brad Crowell  57:29

 Yeah, thanks for having us.