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Kickass Couples Podcast

Rejoice in Your Marriage: The Importance of Holding on – Ep.88 – Rachel & Tony Hauck

By February 1, 2023No Comments



Rachel, relationship, tony, revelation, church, honoring, god, hear, life, happening, conflict, people, husband, wife, love, called, home, modeled, feel, spilled


Kimberly Hoffman, Matthew Hoffman, Rachel Hauck, Tony Hauck


Matthew Hoffman  11:00

 Welcome back to the Kickass Couples Podcast. We have a Florida/Carolina connection going on today. 35 degrees in Carolina and 72 in Florida with Rachel and Tony Hauck. And we are so grateful to have you all with us today. Welcome to the podcast. 


Rachel Hauck  11:15

Thank you for having us. Glad to be here.


Tony Hauck  11:15

Thank you. 


Matthew Hoffman  11:18

 We are excited. And we love to start off every interview with kind of the same question. And, Tony, I’m going to start with you if you don’t mind. I want to know what do you think makes you and Rachel a kick ass couple?


Tony Hauck  11:31

Honestly, it sounds too simple. But just Jesus. We are so busy trying to pursue him that our relationship gets real easy.


Matthew Hoffman  11:44

That’s beautiful. I see you guys are both pursuing the same thing. And 


Tony Hauck  11:50



Rachel Hauck  11:50



Matthew Hoffman  11:50

 With each other in that process. There was a couple that Rory Vaden and AJ Vaden. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Rory Rachel, he’s a New York Times author wrote a book called “Take the Stairs.” And we interviewed them. He said, You know, it’s like a triangle. He said, I’m pursuing God. And she’s pursuing God. And we’re headed the same direction of as long as we’re both doing that. And things just go well. So I love that response, Tony. Rachel, what would you add to that? What do you think makes you and Tony a kickass couple?


Rachel Hauck  12:17

We generally like each other. We were best friends before we got married, before even kind of the romance kicked in. And that’s a whole other podcast. 


Tony Hauck  12:27



Rachel Hauck  12:27

That’s a whole story in and of itself. But we genuinely like each other, we get along, we have very familiar or similar backgrounds; as far as our family size, our family dynamic, where we fall in the birth order, even, our college experience. I went to a big school, he went to a small school, but we were both involved in the Greek system. So we just had, we have a lot of similarities and a lot of things in common. And we just like hanging out.


Kimberly Hoffman  12:54

So I hear you saying that your friendship system is really in place and is really important in your relationship, which I think is so valuable in any relationship, honestly. 


Matthew Hoffman  13:06

And that’s the foundation. Things get messy if you don’t start with friendship, if you jump right to the romantic and intimate stuff, and that friendship system, that’s kind of a consistent theme we’ve found with all the couples we’ve spoken with, I love that you guys started with friendship, because it means you have a general like before the love. Amen.


Tony Hauck  13:27

 Yeah, we were best friends for three years, best friends, doing ministry together, all that kind of stuff. So when we got married, there was really not that much adjusting. Because we already kind of had a dance we’re doing.


Rachel Hauck  13:44

We knew each other pretty well. 


Tony Hauck  13:45

Yeah. And so it was seamless. And again, those things all flow into each other, our ministry together, our friendship together, our marriage now.You know, those that we don’t, those aren’t distinctives, the lines are blurred on those. They’re all just part of us, you know, being together.


Rachel Hauck  14:04

 We did have of course, that adjustment period of actually living together, 


Kimberly Hoffman  14:08

Of course!


Rachel Hauck  14:09

 So I had to learn, or he had to learn because we started with a full size bed. So he had to learn that when you sleep like this, you’re going to elbow your wife. So I would roll over and get the elbow in the eye. We had to learn a couple of tricks or I would put something on the table and he’d say Who put that there and I’d think the only other person in the house is me. So we kind of had it wasn’t even that, it was more comedic than anything else. 


Tony Hauck  14:09

Sure. Yeah, I’m the organized type. So we came up with solutions. Like you can have the whole house, the top of my dresser, this top of my desk and this table. Don’t fiddle with this. Everything else does whatever you want. 


Kimberly Hoffman  14:49

They belong to me


Matthew Hoffman  14:51

Had to carve out some territory. I love it. I love it.


Kimberly Hoffman  14:54

That’s great advice for our listeners. Find your territories: take it and claim it. 


Tony Hauck  14:58



Kimberly Hoffman  14:59

No one else touches it. 


Rachel Hauck  15:01

That’s right. 


Kimberly Hoffman  15:02

Well, I’m always interested in our history, and how love was modeled for us when we were growing up. And because I really feel like that plays a big part into what we bring to our relationship. And you know, we’re sort of a product of those who raised us, is what I’m saying. And so Rachel, I’m curious, what did love look like in your household when you were growing up? 


Rachel Hauck  15:27

It was good, it was really good. I feel very blessed. My parents were also friends. They got along really well. I have no memory whatsoever of an argument or a fight. I’m sure they may have had closed door discussions, but it never spilled out into our family. They also were very committed to their relationship with the Lord and to the things that he had called them to. So that was modeled with us, it was modeled with my grandparents. My one grandmother, her husband, had died right when I was little, so I didn’t see it with him. But she was a very kind, loving person. So it was modeled in the family and then those that my parents related to, so those people that were in their friendship circle, had strong relationships. So.


Kimberly Hoffman  16:14

Would you say there was a lot of affection, and it was visible affection that was modeled for you?


Rachel Hauck  16:19

Yeah, there was, and that was my mom, initially. And then my dad said, My mom taught him that. So she was the affectionate one and it spilled over into my dad. So hugging my dad, or, or my uncles, that was no big deal. That I felt free to do that, and free to get that love back. I didn’t feel inhibited by the men in the family and or our male friends, my parents, friends, they were all very kind to me. One of them taught me to drive a stick shift when I was 15. They were like second fathers. And so I was very blessed in that sense.


Kimberly Hoffman  16:54

 Absolutely. How about for you, Tony, what was love? Or how did love look in your family when you were growing up? And how was it modeled for you?


Tony Hauck  17:03

 Probably, the more for that time, the more traditional. We’re, you know, just getting ready to turn 62. So we grew up in our teen years in the 70s. So I never, ever doubted that my parents loved me. But it wasn’t, there wasn’t a lot of hugging and there wasn’t a lot of expression. But, you know, I can’t say how I knew, but I think just through the support and everything, you just knew. So we were, you know, we would do stuff as a family. We were close, but it was just sort of an understood thing. So I wouldn’t say it was really expressive. Then later on, I didn’t get saved until just after college. And so you know,  both my parents have passed away now. They both lived to be 95, but later on, somewhat from Rachel, because she would start hugging him and I’m leaving now I should hug him too. And things like that. So it got to be where it was much more expressive, later, as I had, again, more of a grid for intimacy in the Lord and all that. But yeah, it was, I can only remember, you know, like one really good argument they had to kind of, you know, we’re listening to it upstairs looking at each other with big eyes going, Holy cow, what are they doing? So mostly, it was a peaceful, loving home. It was really impressive.


Kimberly Hoffman  18:31

 Sounds like you’re both very blessed in that regard. I’m curious, Tony, was it hard for you to show affection to Rachel, when you first came together in your relationship? Was that something that you had to overcome? Or did that come natural for you? 


Tony Hauck  18:47

A little bit. Not Hugely. But yeah, we were probably at different places on the scale. And so, you know, head to it, because I just wouldn’t think of it and


Kimberly Hoffman  19:03

Maybe she needed it. 


Tony Hauck  19:05

Yeah. You should hug me more. I’m like, okay. You know, so but yeah, it’s okay. And for women out there, you know, it’s alright, remind your husband, just do it nice.


Matthew Hoffman  19:19

We all need those reminders. I live on those and appreciate them as well. That kind of leads naturally into,  we have 14 pillars and we always like to focus on three and we call those our three C’s. And they’re foundational, we think really in every successful relationship, and the first C is commitment. And so Rachel, I’m gonna start with you. I’m gonna say, tell me why or what commitment looks like in your relationship with Tony.


Rachel Hauck  19:47

I think that there’s no back doors. There’s no side doors, there’s no windows. There’s no, I’m in it. This is my life. This is my partner. This is truly the One God gave me. Again, that’s the other podcast, there’s the whole story there. And I, I feel like if I was separated from him, I’d be separated from part of myself. So commitment to me is where I’m in it. I’m in it with prayer, I’m in it with love, I’m in it with affection, I’m in it with keeping no record of wrong. I’m in it not looking for, what’s he giving me but what am I giving him, I’m 100% in. And so because we have this kind of really cool symbiotic relationship, we don’t have a lot of



stress in our relationships. So there’s never been in my mind, the idea of divorce, that’s just not a word that we were going into, that was a word that we never, that we committed to never say. And also, like I came into the relationship committed to, I would never talk about them with my girlfriends, I would never badmouth them to anybody. It didn’t mean that if I didn’t have something that I would need to discuss with somebody, I could do that. But I was never going to, you know, frankly, bitch about him, I was never going to do that. If I had an issue, I was going to take it to him. So I just felt like going in my commitment included honoring. And that’s that my commitment was to me. I didn’t feel like I could do anything less. So.


Matthew Hoffman  21:11

 Sure. And did you feel that way, Rachel, from the get go, or like, tell me how you arrived at this is what I’m going to do and this is how I’m going to demonstrate that in this relationship?


Rachel Hauck  21:22

 I kind of came at it from the get go. But we were 31 when we got married. So there was a little bit of world experience under my belt. And I actually when I worked in the corporate world, and I worked in newspapers, and I expressly worked in classified advertising departments training and installing computer systems, I listened to the women in the room, it was largely the sales staff who were women. And the things that they would say about their husbands was shocking. And I just took a lesson from that. And then I would hear it from other people. And I thought why? Why would I say this about someone that I’ve committed my life to that I share a life with, I share a bed with and I probably share children with. I just, it was shocking to me to kind of see it. And I committed to that, even before we were engaged. I just knew that’s who I wanted to be as a wife. And I thought a lot about what kind of wife I wanted to be before we even got to that point. So.


Matthew Hoffman  22:18

Right,  Well, and I think the theme you said it, but I want to kind of come back to it is you said honor, and everything you talked about honoring him.


Rachel Hauck  22:27



Matthew Hoffman  22:27

 And that was kind of that common thread. And that’s, that’s a beautiful way to look at commitment is how, how am I being honored? But how am I honoring? 


Rachel Hauck  22:36

How am I honoring, yeah.


Matthew Hoffman  22:36

My spouse. I love that.


Kimberly Hoffman  22:38

We talked about faith and moral code last month at KCN and more a moral code, a moral compass, that’s really what I hear you saying is what you’re really going by. And I think it’s important for our listeners to know that you are honoring your husband when you don’t go behind his back and, and talk about him or even talk about something that he may have shared with you privately. But it’s no one else’s business. So I think those are important things to remember when we get caught up and frustrated with our spouse, that we can’t just take all that information out there and throw it out there. 


Matthew Hoffman  23:22



Rachel Hauck  23:22



Matthew Hoffman  23:23

Tony, how would you add to it? How do you see commitment in your relationship with Rachel?


Tony Hauck  23:29

It’s really the same thing. But again, we get married at 31. So I’ve been a Christian for eight years, I’d read the Bible, I didn’t see an option. It was yeah, it was, I just don’t see it as an option to go into it any other way. It’s not.There’s, I love I forget who said it. I think it was Chris Valeton, where God has not expressed an opinion, you’re free to believe whatever you want, where he has expressed an opinion, you are led to believe something else. So I’d read his opinions on marriage. And I just went well, this is what you do. It’s my responsibility. So I guess where that plays out is I don’t have an option for it to not work. It’s my responsibility to make it work. And it’s really, at the at the risk of, you know, giving you a short teaching. It’s really


Rachel Hauck  24:35

Warning, warning.


Tony Hauck  24:37

seeing the Bible, go back to Adam and Eve in the garden. And she, you know, is tempted and she goes for it. But Adam just watches and goes for it. And we in you know we’re told that and so I love how the quote unquote curse. A lot of times what God calls a curse, it’s training. And so he says to Adam, you’re going to work by the sweat of your brow. Really, what he’s saying is, you’re going to have to start taking responsibility. Now it’s gonna be easy anymore that the Earth has fallen, it’s not going to cooperate with you, and your family isn’t going to eat unless you take responsibility. You’re, you have to take responsibility for your wife, it’s you have to take responsibility for the spiritual atmosphere, you didn’t do that you stood there and watched her eat the fruit. And so you’re going to learn to be responsible, and he turns to Eve and says, you’re going to your husband’s gonna rule over you but your desire’s is going to be first position. In other words, you’re going to learn to come under spiritual leadership. Now, this isn’t a man, woman, every man woman thing, this is a husband, wife thing you can you know, Kim you can be president and be have authority over every man in America, except for Matt at your house. It’s not just a husband, wife thing. So you go fast forward to the New Testament. And it is really simple. It says, love your wife, serve her, wash it with work, be responsible for the spiritual atmosphere in your home, and wives, honor and respect your husband. So you fast forward to modern day, you know, our sin, nature. You know, whatever God tells me, I don’t want to do. So you got a man, you know, you’re going to work and be responsible for your family, he goes, not if I can help it and a woman, you’re gonna come under your husband’s authority to lead the house spiritually, and she does not if I can help it. And so you have a guy sitting on the couch watching football with his wife yelling at him to get off his butt and cut the grass. It’s just the problem. And so I go, the solution is really simple. And what I find when I talk to people is marriage counseling. Most of the time, the wife is telling me how the husband is not doing his job. And the husband’s telling me how the wife isn’t doing her job. She’s not respecting me, he’s not loving me. I go, guys, you got to take responsibility to do your own job. And it’s amazing how often that simple thing solves a problem. Just love them whether she respects you or not, just treat him with honor whether he is doing it or not. And it starts to turn around. And so I just see that in the Bible, I have no choice but to be responsible for the spiritual atmosphere in my home for washing my wife with the word for loving and serving her. Authority in the Bible is always given to serve. So I just don’t see we have an option.


Kimberly Hoffman  27:40

Thank you for that reminder in that short teaching.


Matthew Hoffman  27:43

 Yeah, got a little bonus. A bonus. This is great. And, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s clear and evident, and, and proof that it works, because you’ve taken that inspired Word, and used it as your guide for making those decisions. And you’ve been blessed because of it. And through it. And you both have a wonderful sense of honor. And that commitment. I think that’s wonderful. 


Kimberly Hoffman  28:13

I’d love to talk about the second of our three C’s, which is communication. And as we both know, communication, good communication is vital in a relationship. It means everything. And I’d love to know, I’d love to hear a little bit from you, Tony, what does communication look like in your relationship? How do you make time to communicate with one another?


Tony Hauck  28:37

Well, again, the best friends thing and not having kids.We, you know, we communicate all the time.


Kimberly Hoffman  28:45

It makes it a big difference doesn’t it?


Tony Hauck  28:48

We’ll just talk to each other. Yeah. But, it also has to be learned. I mean, there’s intentionality in it as well. And men and women communicate differently, and even if you think you know, you don’t know until you’re told. So I can remember funny things where I’m learning how to communicate, she would, for example, I’m a guy and I’m kind of analytical. So you know, we fix stuff. And I can remember and annoy her when she would tell me things that were going on, and I would give her advice and fix, you know, try to fix her problem. But not all the time. Sometimes she wanted me to fix her problem. And I remember one time, and it was we’ve been married a couple years, and she’s telling me something and I’d be sitting there looking at her and she goes, What are you doing? I said, I’m trying to figure out if I’m supposed to help you fix this, or if this is just a time I’m supposed to listen. ” And she just started laughing. And I don’t think we ever had conflict on that again.


Rachel Hauck  29:49

 What was so weird about that is by now we’ve been in a relationship for six years or so. And I’m telling him something and he’s just looking at me and I was like, why aren’t you saying anything? And he goes, I’m trying to figure out if I’m listening or fixing, and I went, what? That had never happened in six years. I’m like, What is this new zone network? And all of a sudden, it was really funny. We just started laughing because I thought, Okay, well, this is a new one that we’ve got to figure out.


Kimberly Hoffman  30:16

 But I think that’s a great question, though. Right? Can I fix it? Or am I listening? It’s a valid question. Because a lot of times we just want to put it out there, you just got to talk about it and say, We don’t need anybody to fix it. 


Matthew Hoffman  30:28

Guys, by default, unfortunately, are cursed with, Hey, I gotta come in and save it, fix it and make it go the way I think it should. 


Tony Hauck  30:36

Exactly. So I had to learn to communicate and when not to communicate, you know? 


Rachel Hauck  30:41



Tony Hauck  30:42

Right. How about for you, Rachel, what would you add to that?


Rachel Hauck  30:47

Well, you know, there’s communication. That’s just information. And sometimes that’s really easy for people. But then there’s communication. That’s heart. That’s intimacy. That’s, that’s revelation. And so are we, are we communicating just information? That’s good, because that needs to be done? At what time you what time? Are you doing this? Where are you going after that? What time you’d be home. But then there’s the communication that you need to know my heart, I need to know your heart. And so I feel like those are the times and even though we have that great relationship, and it is something that we have to sometimes intentionally do is share revelation. And you know, I’m more of the just get it off my chest, the venter type. He’s more of just kind of not holding it in. But thinking, Okay, this is my understanding. And this is how I’m going to function out of that understanding. So for example, we were talking about finances one time, and I was like, I don’t understand why you’re not doing something about this particular issue. And this house was a gift to us from some friends, almost a gift, they sold it to us for about $50,000 under the market. They held a loan interest free, you know, we were able to pay it off in nine years. And so there was this, it was kind of just a divine season in our life. And, and he communicated to me like, oh, ever since what happened with this house, how we got this house, I just really saw that God is completely in charge of our finances, we were able to forgive a large debt, a large debt that someone owed us because of the way that we got this house and the equity that we had in our other house. Long story. That’s another podcast. And, he said, I just stopped worrying about finances. And I’m like, Oh, that was a revelation that I needed to know. I didn’t know where his heart was in that place. And so that was a revelation to me. And there’s been other things like that, where we’ve shared things with each other. And the other one said, Oh, God, I didn’t know that. Okay, now that makes sense. Now, we’re on the same page. So I think you have to be intentional about Revelation. And that takes, you can’t do that, as you’re walking out the door to go to church or go to work, you have to sit across from each other. And have time to say that, like, I need to talk with you. You need to set the stage. So I feel like that’s an important part of communication in a marriage.


Kimberly Hoffman  33:11

And do you make time for that? We do. We do. It doesn’t happen that often. As far as needing those things, I think we’re better at realizing those things. But yeah, I’ll come in and go, Hey, I need to tell you something. And then I wait till he’s done doing what he’s doing. Or I’ll tell him, when is a good time for you to do that? So that’s the other thing. Sometimes it’s like, I need to tell you something right now.


Kimberly Hoffman  33:35

I mean, it’s huge. 


Rachel Hauck  33:36

Yeah. So wait until they’re there in that space, you know, so 


Matthew Hoffman  33:40

Sure. Appreciate that. Well, that kind of leads me into our third C, which is conflict resolution. And no matter how much we love each other, and smile and do the right things, there always seems to be some differences of opinion, or friction that can arise when either there’s bad communication or misunderstanding. Right? And so, Tony, when you guys face conflict, what does that look like? How do you see you working in your relationship to face those days or minimize them when they do arise?


Tony Hauck  34:13

Well, I think it’s like you said, it’s a misunderstanding. And we say that as a euphemism when we had a misunderstanding, but no, you really did. They were saying something and you’re hearing something different. So this sounds super simple, but it’s huge. I’m a big believer in asking questions. With any conflict resolution, even as simple as, here’s what I think I said, What did you hear me say? And then I find out, Oh, she heard something entirely different than what I intended to communicate, or vice versa, or I think you’re saying this, is that correct? You know, just asking questions more than making statements is huge at getting to the bottom of the misunderstanding.


Kimberly Hoffman  35:07

We always talk about seeking understanding, and truly an opportunity to seek understanding when you are having a miscommunication or conflict over something, an issue.


Matthew Hoffman  35:19

How about you, Rachel, how do you see conflict resolution or problem? Right? When there’s problems in the relationship or problems that you’re facing? How do the two of you do that dance together? 


Rachel Hauck  35:31

I’m the peacemaker. So I like peace. I like things to be resolved. I don’t like things hanging out there. So I tend to, I don’t necessarily say I love confrontation, but I’ll seek more ways to, to fix things and I have zero problem taking the low road. So not that I’m a pushover. I’m not a pushover. I’m not a pushover. But I have no problem saying I’m sorry, I have no problem backing down, I have no problem. Just taking the low road and it’s to me, it’s about a steaming other shyer than ourselves. And so if there is some kind of conflict, I’m totally open to it. Not being right, me being irrational, or me, maybe something’s just going on with me. And then I’m putting it off on him or something. So I’m always quick to listen, I tried to listen. We’ve learned we’ve had to learn to do that. Are we listening? Or are we talking? So for me, that’s, that’s it to try to get to the bottom of it. So it’s, it’s cleaned up, apologize, whatever needs to be said. And we’ve had some pretty funny, we’ve had some pretty funny things like, are you sure that you told me that? I think you just told it in your head? So we’ve had some pretty funny conversations like


Matthew Hoffman  36:46

 You thought it you didn’t say that


Kimberly Hoffman  36:47

You had that conversation with yourself, actually .


Rachel Hauck  36:49

Was I there? So it’s funny though, if he’s in his chair, he has his chair in our Florida room. If he’s there reading or doing something, there’s a good chance I’m talking and he’s not hearing me. And then and this is same if I’m upstairs working in writing, there’s a good chance he’s talking and I’m not hearing him.


Kimberly Hoffman  37:08



Rachel Hauck  37:08

 So we have to go. Are you listening? Or instead just a minute, so we’ll kind of do that. So do we know those tiny little mind holes? Where if we gotta make sure the other person’s listening, when we’re when we’re communicating, especially with something important if it’s, you know, Hey, What time’s the game? That doesn’t matter. 


Tony Hauck  37:29



Kimberly Hoffman  37:29



Matthew Hoffman  37:30



Tony Hauck  37:30

And obviously, humility is a big deal on both ends. 


Rachel Hauck  37:33



Tony Hauck  37:35

Again, going back to that responsibility, and, you know, we, we both because we’re following Jesus see that we have to be good at conflict resolution, we have to be humble, we have to be willing to own our stuff and say we’re sorry. And so if we’re doing that everywhere, it’s actually easier to do it with someone you know, really well. And you love. 


Rachel Hauck  37:57



Matthew Hoffman  37:57



Kimberly Hoffman  37:58

 Give me an example of a good apology. Because I think that’s important when we apologize. What does a good apology look like?


Rachel Hauck  38:07

That’s a good question. 


Tony Hauck  38:08

Well, I’d say you own your stuff, you don’t qualify. And you don’t use the apology as a segue. So it’s not so much a good apology as it is really simple. Hey, I get it. I did this wrong. I’m sorry. A bad apology, I guess is, hey, I did this wrong. But you or, Hey, I did this wrong. But here’s why. And if you know, so yeah, a good apology is just, it’s only an apology. It’s just I did this and I’m sorry, 


Kimberly Hoffman  38:45

gotcha. Owning your stuff, 


Rachel Hauck  38:47

Owning your stuff. And I think a good apology may even require some God revelation. This doesn’t relate to us in particular, but I had a conflict with one of my brothers once and I couldn’t figure out what was going on, because it was kind of happening long distance, social media, a couple of texts. And I remember just going God, you’ve got to show me what is happening here. I don’t understand what’s happening. And, and I just had this thought, and it was Oh, right. And so I went and I apologized, and I posted something or I texted him, my understanding, my revelation, I was sorry. And within a few days, he’s calling me and telling me about something as if it never happened, which was par for our relationship anyway. And so I feel like sometimes that needs to be a part of our humility process is going to God and saying, What am I missing here? And that revelation allows us to go back and say, I see your heart. So I’m always asking the Holy Spirit, show me how you feel about Tony. So show me how you feel about me because that helps me but if I do I need revelation to understand what’s happening in this conflict and how I can apologize and and improve myself or come into alignment with God and with him in the process of resolving this conflict.


Tony Hauck  40:06

 Yeah. And you know, all couples who follow Jesus will say we involve him in our relationship. But what you’ll find is, when they’re in conflict, they’re like, Well, Jesus, this is between us.


Kimberly Hoffman  40:18

Right. Jesus you stay over here. 


Rachel Hauck  40:21

We don’t want you.


Matthew Hoffman  40:22

Get on the sidelines.


Rachel Hauck  40:23

We’re embarrassed.


Matthew Hoffman  40:25

Involve him then as well. 


Kimberly Hoffman  40:27

Exactly. That’s good advice.


Tony Hauck  40:29

 And so yeah, I’m just going God, 


Matthew Hoffman  40:31

Leave God out of this, get out of here.  


Tony Hauck  40:34

Why am I feeling this way? There have been times where we’re felt edgy. And we’ll and we’ll talk. And we’ll realize, and this is just kind of something in the atmosphere, and we just pray and deal with it and go, This isn’t even us.


Rachel Hauck  40:48

I will share real quick testimony if I can. About a year and a half ago, two years ago, I went, something started happening where I felt like he didn’t like me because I was annoying him, it never ever happened. And he would say, like, just submit a bid. And I would hear just a minute bad. And I would you know, and so I remember being up in my office, and I was working, but this thing was turning in me it was bugging me. And I started praying against it. And I just started, for lack of a better word, rebuking it. And it went away. So a few nights later, I was leading worship. And I had on a body pack for my earbuds. And it fell off and so I just plugged straight into the P 16. And I continued worshiping. And he came up and picked the body pack up and set it on the stand, and he kind of just whispered, this fell off. Well, I heard this fell off. And it was just like an attitude or a tone. And I’m not kidding you guys. From that point on, I’m still leading worship. In my head. We’re divorced, people are falling away from God, disappointed that couple that they saw go after God for 30 years, is I mean, was it a disaster in my head? And I kept thinking, what is this? What is this and just every bad thing that you can think of, and I beelined right to him afterwards. So here I am in the presence of God leading worship, and I’m literally in spiritual warfare. 


Tony Hauck  42:15

I’m unaware of our pending divorce. 


Kimberly Hoffman  42:17

He’s unaware of our pending divorce.


Rachel Hauck  42:19

And I started, I said, look, we got to pray. And so we prayed then, but then we drove home separately, and he was praying, I was praying, and we came in and we got in the kitchen right away. We just said, Okay, we’re coming against this, we don’t know what we just did together against it. But I had to let him know what was happening. I had to, I had to recognize that wait a minute, this is not right. This is not me, at this point. This isn’t my flesh, just going through something, this is something beyond me. And if I I just feel like you know, once you surrender to things like that, in those thought processes, you can set yourself up for something. And so we were gone after that, after we kind of confronted it together. So I do think there’s a place for revelation in the midst of our conflict in the midst of our emotions towards one another is, you know, is it just your flesh or something else going on? The devil runs around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. So 


Matthew Hoffman  43:14

Right, I appreciate it. I love the idea of seeking out the answer because it’s not always like the two of us are gonna figure it out, you know, appealing to the other power kind of getting out of your self and looking, you know, faithfully for those answers. And I appreciate that. And I also loved what you all said, each of you about the personal responsibility, like it’s not up to me, it’s not up to someone to do this. For me, it’s not up to somebody to do it to me, it’s, it’s for me to say, I am taking accountability. And I’m going to do what I need. It’s on me, I’ve got to do, I’m called to do what I have to do, not to wait for it to be done or given or someone to do it for me. And so I think in relationships and in any relationship, it’s that personal accountability, I’m going to do everything I can in my power to live up to the highest standard of what I’m called to do, period. Because if both people in the relationship did that, then you’re much more smooth sailing, there’ll still be some rough water and some winds. No doubt, like you said, Because stuff outside of you is trying to come against that goodness. But I love that idea of personal accountability and making sure you’re doing everything you need to be doing 


Kimberly Hoffman  44:23

Well. And I think it’s so easy to feed that version in your head. Right? 


Rachel Hauck  44:28

Right. Yeah. 


Kimberly Hoffman  44:29

You just keep feeding it in it all of a sudden it just keeps becoming larger than life. And I love that you did take the responsibility and said we’ve got to talk about this. We have to discuss this now. I can’t go any further.


Rachel Hauck  44:44

 Because when you’re in that situation, then all of the little tiny things throughout your whole married life, or even your life as a kid before all of a sudden those things start running through your mind and building a case. Don’t let the negative things build a case in your head, 


Kimberly Hoffman  45:01



Rachel Hauck  45:01

And So that because then that becomes your reality. And it’s not long before. People will, how’d you get there? How did they get there? I don’t know. They’ve had such a great marriage, how did they get there? I don’t know. But it really is a battle of the mind. So, 


Tony Hauck  45:16



Kimberly Hoffman  45:17

Well, we have 11 other pillars, 


Rachel Hauck  45:19

yes we have them


Kimberly Hoffman  45:20

That we believe, really are important in a successful relationship. And so I’d love to ask you, Tony, of the other 11 pillars, and I believe you have that list in front of you. 


Kimberly Hoffman  45:33

We do 


Kimberly Hoffman  45:34

Which one resonates most with you? And why does it resonate with you?


Tony Hauck  45:40

Oh, I don’t know. I like 


Rachel Hauck  45:42

We like them all. 


Tony Hauck  45:43

Almost all of them. Yeah. And value all those.


Kimberly Hoffman  45:49

If you had to pick one.


Tony Hauck  45:50

 Yeah, I would probably go with fun and humor.


Rachel Hauck  45:55

We were looking at the page, and we both pointed to it at the same time. 


Tony Hauck  45:58

Maybe, maybe an underestimated value in but I just think in life, I think most people take themselves too seriously. And I’m a pastor, so most pastors take themselves too seriously. And, you know, why not have fun? Why not enjoy?You know, I mean, I think that’s a valid goal for being married, you know,


Kimberly Hoffman  46:23

 Laugh together, play together, have fun together. 


Matthew Hoffman  46:26

What are some of the ways 


Tony Hauck  46:27

For vacation. Let’s go have fun.


Matthew Hoffman  46:30

What are some of the ways that you guys do that? What do you guys like to do for fun? How do you keep that alive in that relationship?


Tony Hauck  46:36

 We joke all the time. 


Rachel Hauck  46:38

He’s incredibly funny. He is really super funny.


Tony Hauck  46:43

Maybe later


Rachel Hauck  46:45

Not on the spot, maybe he comes up with some good ones. 


Tony Hauck  46:49

But we like a lot of the same things. We watch college football. 


Rachel Hauck  46:52

Yeah. You need number 15 on here, watch college football together.


Tony Hauck  46:57

Although being Ohio State fans this weekend was rough. 


Rachel Hauck  46:59

This was a disappointing week.


Matthew Hoffman  47:01

Yeah, we won’t go there, ok.


Rachel Hauck  47:03

Don’t even, let’s keep our joy up.


Tony Hauck  47:06

Yeah but I mean but we do a lot of our ministry together. And a lot of our life is separate. But we talked about it. Like she writes books. I don’t, I haven’t even read all of them. But you know, she’ll come down and tell me about it. And I’ll bounce ideas off of her and try and get her to throw a spaceship in. She won’t do it. And, 


Rachel Hauck  47:32



Tony Hauck  47:33

And but we, you know, we’re just, I don’t know, we’re just everything that we’re doing. We’re talking about and having fun with it.


Rachel Hauck  47:40

We have a really cool tradition where we go to breakfast at a local diner, and we know, the waitstaff we know, a third of the patrons that are there when we’re there. And we read. It’s this, like, we go to the gym, and we go to breakfast and we read and we love that. That’s super fun is something that we just have in common. Our vacations are to go somewhere by a lake and read. So those are the fun things. I get restless before he does. But I’m cool with walking the mountains by myself or going down to the lake by myself. We’re both kind of unique. He’s an introvert, I’m probably that ambivert. I’m an introvert and an extrovert. So we do, we’d like to 


Tony Hauck  48:24

So I made a game out of it. I see. My goal is to see how many days we can not leave the property. And at some point, she’ll tell me we’re going to go do so 


Kimberly Hoffman  48:36

Yes. It is time to get out. 


Rachel Hauck  48:38

I have had enough. 


Kimberly Hoffman  48:39

How about you, Rachel? What tells me what pillar resonates most with you and why? 


Rachel Hauck  48:44

Well, fun and humor was one. But four, trust and honesty, I really value trust and honesty with everybody and I’m a loyal person who is super huge with me. And it is with him as well. But I got to know that I can trust you because you don’t have security and unity. And if none of that’s there, and I got to know that you’re being honest with me. I don’t want to think that you’re there stuff going on that I don’t know about and I’m not talking about in a relationship. He comes home and says oh boy, I had something happen with a church member today. But I can’t tell you, that’s fine. I don’t need to know all of that. But what’s going on with you, what’s going on with us and in our world? That I need to know I can trust and that I need to know you’re honest about it, so.


Matthew Hoffman  49:30

 Sure. Well, we appreciate you guys sharing those favorites and why we think they’re all important and it’s neat to see how the threads that are the fabric created by them come together. Kim and I believe pretty firmly that our relationship has got so much good and it just spills over into a lot of other areas of our lives. So I love to hear you guys each share with me. Maybe Rachel you could start how the goodness of your relationship between the two of you spilled over into other areas of your life?


Rachel Hauck  50:03

Oh, that’s a good one. Well, probably my relationship with other people talking with friends about their marriage, you know that having a secure place to go from helps me to encourage other women, especially younger women in marriage. One of the big ways that our relationship is built over because we don’t have children, we have what I call OPK, other people’s kids. And because we did youth ministry, Tony was youth pastor for 25 years, I was probably with him for 20 of the years, we have kids who come home to visit their families, and they stay with us. They spend Christmas day with us. And we have a family in church, their daughter came or the wife came up through youth church with us, I met her when she was 14 in the back of a truck in Guatemala, they have nine children. And we’re OMA and OPA to them. So kind of our relationship. To me, I think of it as kind of an umbrella for anybody who wants a place to come and be, anybody who doesn’t have a place where they feel like they can anchor in you come in and anchor in with us. So I say family is whoever fits into your heart. So that’s kind of I think, what, how our relationship has spilled out into the community. And we kind of had this reputation of oh, that’s Tony and Rachel, around not only in church, but in other churches, because so many of now young adults, young married couples, raising families, we’ve somehow connected with over the years through youth church, because we used to have this multi church, youth meaning and youth events. And so we know, we knew quite a lot of youth from various different churches. And they’ll see us and be like, Oh, it’s Tony and Rachel. And so we provided for them that example, when they were young growing up, maybe they didn’t have at home, maybe they did. But it provides a kind of home base to a lot of kids that came up through our church. So


Matthew Hoffman  51:53

How about for you, Tony, how do you see the goodness of your relationships spill over into other areas of your life? 


Tony Hauck  52:00

Well, the thing that’s probably most often expressed is at first, we didn’t know why. But I think I have a better idea now. But people would express a sense of security, that they feel secure around us or they, they feel that way at church, in the environment we’ve created or, and so I think that us being stable, creates a point of stability for other people to come under. And, and, and they like that, and I for a while before God made me be a pastor. And because I joke that he tricked me into it, I really didn’t know what I was getting into, he didn’t,  there wasn’t full disclosure, we’ll just say. But at any rate, I taught high school for a couple years and coached and stuff. And then when things were getting a little lean back when I was doing youth ministry, I went back and taught for a few years part time. And this time, it was at a Christian school. And I’d never forgotten. There was a girl that just liked talking and she liked Rachel and I and Rachel would come in and talk to the class. The English class sometimes cuz she writes books, you know. And the girl looked at me at one point and said, Hey, you and Rachel, do you guys ever yell at each other? And I said, No, I don’t think so. We disagree sometimes, but we really don’t. And she gets this kind of wistful look on her face. And she goes, I don’t know what that’s like. And I’m realizing, Oh, wow, these kids are growing up in you know, volatile homes, and in one parent homes and with conflict and all that. And I began to understand just how big a deal it was for them to have a couple that’s just stable.


Kimberly Hoffman  53:58

A safe space like you said.


Rachel Hauck  54:00

Yes, a safe space or believe that you can actually be in a marriage that’s healthy, loving and kind and, and doesn’t have to be volatile or yelling or screaming. 


Kimberly Hoffman  54:13

Sure, well, you are modeling behavior for them that they hadn’t seen. So they questioned it. 


Rachel Hauck  54:20



Kimberly Hoffman  54:21

Which I love hearing that. That’s great. 


Rachel Hauck  54:24

They noticed it. 


Kimberly Hoffman  54:26

Absolutely. They noticed it 


Tony Hauck  54:28

is you know, they’d hung out with us. And so


Kimberly Hoffman  54:31



Tony Hauck  54:32



Kimberly Hoffman  54:33

 Sure. Well, if you had to go back to Tony, to your unmarried self, and give your unmarried self a piece of advice, one piece of advice, what would that be?


Tony Hauck  54:46

Wow, just one huh?


Matthew Hoffman  54:49

It’s just one.


Kimberly Hoffman  54:50

Pick one.


Tony Hauck  54:52

Boy, that is hard. I don’t know if that would have done any good. I often encourage young women by telling them to be patient, men mature between 40-45.


Kimberly Hoffman  55:05

So true. 


Tony Hauck  55:06

Yeah. So I don’t know that it would have done any good. I can remember. I think if I went back I would just smile and say just stay at it man, just stick with Jesus it’s going to work out you know, and knowingly go You’re a knucklehead, but it’s gonna be okay. I can remember people when I was a young Christian, trying to speak in my life and tell me things, and I’m going, Yeah, okay. And, and I think I’m hearing him. And it would be three or four months later, something would happen in my life. And I’d go, that’s what they were talking about. I had no idea what they meant, until the life experience caught up. So I don’t think unmarried me could handle what I had to tell him.


Kimberly Hoffman  55:57

How about you, Rachel, if you had to give yourself your unmarried self, some advice, what would that advice be?


Rachel Hauck  56:05

I would just say chill out, girl. You know, and that’s really what I came to in my mid 20s. I say, God, I don’t know who to marry. I don’t know where to work. I don’t know what to do with this degree that I have. You put me somewhere, you pick the guy. And literally, that’s what happened. But, you know, I grew up in a Christian home. So and I had, I was saved, got saved when I was a little girl. So I really didn’t know a life outside of God. But I think I would tell myself, this is what I tell youth today. If you stick with God, you don’t have to worry, you know, just trust Him. But I know the wonders of being a teenager and a young 20 something, I know the lure of what your friends are doing or what you see, now online. I understand the lure of that I when I went to Ohio State, I was like, I’m here to have fun. That’s what I want college fun. That’s what I’m here for. And oh, yeah, and a degree, that would be good, too. And so I think sometimes we have to go through those things to learn and to become the people that we are today. 


Kimberly Hoffman  57:12



Rachel Hauck  57:12

But I think I would like Tony, I don’t know that I would have listened because I’m sure I had people tell me that. But I think I would say, just chill out. Hang with Jesus.


Matthew Hoffman  57:25

Well, you guys have been terrific in sharing with us today. If people want to learn more about you, Rachel, about you, Tony, where can they find you guys? And where can they learn more about the good things that you’re doing?


Tony Hauck  57:37

Well, Rachel, you can just look up Rachel Hauck on Amazon. There’ll be a bunch of books. But you can go to Right?


Rachel Hauck  57:47



Tony Hauck  57:47

 And she’s been she’s went up to 30 or so books. So she writes really good books. They’re good. They’re, they’re fun. 


Rachel Hauck  57:54

He even likes makes them. Even without spaceships.


Tony Hauck  57:56

I even like some of them. Yeah. And they, they aren’t my genre. And, and, for me, our church is ‘Church on the Rock’ here in Melbourne, our website is  ‘’ And you can go on there and you know, there’s teachings and stuff we’re doing. But you know, that’s we’re 150 or so smallish church, we’re real big into the Word and worship. And, you know, there’s teachings on there you might like but you know, mostly, it’s the same stuff. If you’re in a good church, your pastor is telling you.


Kimberly Hoffman  58:32

Thank you both so much for 


Rachel Hauck  58:34

Thank you. 


Kimberly Hoffman  58:35

for being with us today. And for being gracious with your time. We feel like our audience really got a lot of fruit from this interview. So we’re grateful.


Matthew Hoffman  58:44

 We’re grateful. Thank you so much. We look forward to connecting with you all again and sharing this episode. 


Rachel Hauck  58:49

Absolutely. Thank you guys so much. 


Tony Hauck  58:50



Rachel Hauck  58:50

It was a pleasure to be here. God bless.


Kimberly Hoffman  58:51

Take care.