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Kickass Couples Podcast

Adventures for Two: A Guide to Making Your Relationship a Journey – Ep. 116 – Scott & Nancy Kiesling

By August 16, 2023No Comments


Scott and Nancy Kiesling – Ep.116 – Adventures for Two: A Guide to Making Your Relationship a Journey

Tue, Jul 25, 2023 6:27PM • 58:14


relationship, nancy, feel, scott, hear, people, learning, communication, adventurous, conversation, pause, conflict, person, intimacy, big, commitment, life, modeled, pillars, couples


Matthew Hoffman, Kimberly Hoffman, Nancy Kiesling, Scott Kiesling


Matthew Hoffman  00:16

Welcome back to the Kickass Couples Podcast. We are excited to be with an incredibly adventurous and dynamic couple with us today. We want to welcome to the podcast, Scott and Nancy Kiesling. So glad you guys could be with us today.


Nancy Kiesling  02:32

Thank you guys. We are so excited to be here.


Scott Kiesling  02:34

Yeah. Thank you for having us. We are looking forward to our conversation.


Matthew Hoffman  02:39

That’s great. 


Kimberly Hoffman  02:40

Same and we are going to come right out of the gate asking our very first question, favorite question. And that is what do you believe, Scott, that makes you kick ass in your relationship right?


Scott Kiesling  02:58

 In our relationship?


Kimberly Hoffman  03:01

In your relationship, what makes you kick ass? The two of you.


Scott Kiesling  03:04

I think what makes us a kick ass duo is the fact that we both really live not only presently but adventurously. And we both sort of have this adventurous mindset separately and together and really getting to share that and show people the possibilities around adventurous mindset. And what it can do for a relationship, I think is what


Nancy Kiesling  03:37

Yeah, yeah, like, we don’t only have it with each other, but then we both really want to share that with other people and take other people into that world too. So yeah.


Kimberly Hoffman  03:50

Fun and humor is one of our pillars, one of our 14 pillars that we believe it takes to make or to have a successful relationship. And so I love hearing you say that because it is an important factor in relationships. And I also feel like it’s one that gets missed sometimes, right? We get so busy with life, and we’re living in this vortex and we forget to have fun and to be adventurous with one another.


Nancy Kiesling  04:16



Matthew Hoffman  04:17

So I’m gonna ask you for I’m gonna play the novice, I’ve never heard the term adventurous mindset. So would you mind giving us kind of a, a lame, a laypersons definition of what is an adventurous mindset? 


Scott Kiesling  04:31

Sure. So, you know, most people when they think of adventure, they think of like thrills and rappelling down waterfalls or jumping out of an airplane and as fun as that is, and we do do all of that. The idea around adventures mindset is more of the openness of your mind. And it’s about the curiosity and resilience of of people. Playing this game of life and being on this journey. And at its core, I would say an adventurous mindset is about possibility. And, and


Nancy Kiesling  05:12

well in stepping through your fears, you know, for some people adventure is saying hi to somebody, right? For some people adventure is getting out of bed. Right? So it’s not always these big thrills when people hear the word adventure. So learning how to live that way and step through what normally holds people back.


Matthew Hoffman  05:31

Love that. Well, I think you guys both did a great job of defining that. And I think that we’re gonna get into a lot of things about adventure and mindset. But one of the things we’d love to do with we have opportunity to speak to great couples is say, What did love look like growing up? And so Nancy, we all we say around here that you know, grandpa’s in everybody’s bones, right. And the people that raised us had a lot of influence on what we like, what we dislike, how we relate, not only to everybody else, but to our partner and spouse. So go ahead, and Nancy, let me know thinking back, what did love look like for you, and your family situation when you were growing up?


Nancy Kiesling  06:11

I had a very loving family, like it was, it was what we all see in the movies. And my opinion, you know, it was my parents were very supportive of all of us kids, we were shown that we were put first all the time, before them before anything else. We were, you know, really given that support that we could do anything and put as long as we put our mind and our heart into it. So we were really supported. And that equaled love for us, you know, and being put as a priority equaled love for me. You know, and I think for my sister’s as well. But yeah, it was a very loving household. You know, it was, yeah, love was big. And I guess that’s the biggest thing I could explain for it.


Kimberly Hoffman  07:01

So you have some examples that you can share of how your parents express love to each other?


Nancy Kiesling  07:08

Yeah, to each other. So, you know, we had a lot of tradition, we had, you know, family time was big everything was, we were always together as a family of doing things together as a family. So my parents, they were best friends, you know, they really had a wonderful friendship. They were a support system for one another. So coming home to each other, after their days to talk about what happened, struggles they had, but to support one another, and how to overcome something or do better, or just to, you know, vent and get it off their chest. They were always there for each other for that. You know, so I think that communication that I got to see between them was really big. And understanding that that support system and a relationship is really important.


Matthew Hoffman  07:57

Sure, and I have to, you said a magic buzzword for kick ass couples nation, and that’s prioritization or priority. we’re firm believers, our whole platform is really built on the idea that most relationship issues can be solved if each partner has the correct prioritization of their spouse or their partner in the relationship. And I think that, I appreciate you saying that. How about you, Scott? What did what did love look like growing up for you? Or how was that modeled? Or not modeled? And how did you experience that when you were coming up?


Scott Kiesling  08:29

Yeah. Very different than Nancy. I would say the polar opposite. In my childhood. And so my lessons were very, very hard. There was no room to be an individual like to be who you authentically were, it was more to be who you were supposed to be as this as this human as this son as this person. And the, the room for error was very small. And, you know, that’s one of the things that I I truly love about my journey. And I wouldn’t change it for the world. Because if I didn’t have the father and the mother that I had, my son wouldn’t be the man that he is today. And what I mean by that is changing the dynamic of my family. And what that love looked like and how it was modeled, I believe is my biggest, like, strength superpower that I’ve ever achievement that I’ve ever had. So it was modeled to me in such a way that every bit of it was something I didn’t want to do. And that modeling was so perfect for my life, my journey and to be able to pass something on different.


Matthew Hoffman  10:09

Sounds like not only a radical difference, but a lot of incredible challenges to start out with. So how, share with us if you’re, if you’re if you’re comfortable to do so how did you personally navigate that, from the time that that started happening to you? And then kind of the B, part of that question would be, what did you and Nancy need to do relative to those issues in your relationship, so that you guys could get on the same footing? or have some kind of better understanding as well?


Scott Kiesling  10:38

Yeah, well, I’ll touch on the latter part first. And what Nancy and I did do, we did separately, we did work on ourselves to overcome those pieces that normally people bring into a relationship. So for me, there were several different ways that I dealt with that. That experience of, of growing up in the environment that I did. And my go to was drugs and alcohol. That was sort of the go to, of how to not feel the feelings, not be the person I want it to be, but be this other shell of a person. And as most people know, the deeper you get into that life, the closer you come to death, which is what I had hoped for, for a long time. And so my realization came one day standing on top of a seven storey building, with one foot off. And at that moment, I decided that I wouldn’t live any of that old story anymore. And I began to find mentors, read books, travel the world. Like, you name it, I did it. And I spent basically three and a half years a little bit longer, in the beginning of my journey, just learning about me, and how I could keep myself accountable for the and really take responsibility for who I was up until that point. And then really, the mentors and learning who I want it to become, for that person that I want it to be with forever, and didn’t want to be the, the guy in the bar of the guy running around, or the guy not paying attention, but actually be invested in committed and I know committed is one of your your pillars. Having that commitment, truly, from a place of committed to self, not other.


Nancy Kiesling  12:55



Matthew Hoffman  12:56

That’s huge. Wow. Thank you.


Kimberly Hoffman  12:58

Yeah, that’s a powerful story. And I think it gives a lot of hope to other people who find themselves maybe in that same place. Right? You made a decision in that moment. And the hope is that people can hear your story and, and learn and, and grow from it. And you talked about commitment, which is a great segue into our next question. And that is, I’ll start with you, Nancy, how does commitment show up in your relationship? What does commitment between you and Scott look like?


Nancy Kiesling  13:34

So I would say, you know, commitment for us is really, you know, where he goes, I go where I go, he goes, You know, we are in this. And that’s figuratively and literally, you know, life is going to take you on a journey, right? It’s not always going to be, you know, unicorns and rainbows. So even when things get tough, and we go through struggle, we’re going to be there by each other side to help the other through it, or help each other through it. And then, of course, all the fun and good times to have, you know, actually going places. But you know, he Scott had an accident about five years ago, that was a real, you know, kind of turnaround to our relationship for a long time. You know, but you hear a lot of stories of tragedy happening and relationships and people separating because of it. Right? So really learning how we could both grow through that and be with each other through that is my version of commitment, you know, to our relationship and that extends in every direction outside of that.


Kimberly Hoffman  14:46

Sure. Do you have anything that you might add to that Scott?


Scott Kiesling  14:55

Probably. I think, you know, I and I said it a minute ago, I think, for me, the commitment comes back to me, and being committed to a life of joy and opportunity, as opposed to struggle and victim and challenge. And really, when I live that for me, it automatically creates a space for us to live that together.


Nancy Kiesling  15:28

Yeah. And to think of our vow as well. Yeah. You know, like, we always said to each other, like, I’ll be by best me for you, and you’ll be your best you for me and vice versa. But we always come first, individually, not only so you are the best version for you, but it reflects on the relationship. You know, I take care of me for me, but also you, you know.


Scott Kiesling  15:52

Right and I take care of me for me, but also for her.


Nancy Kiesling  15:55



Matthew Hoffman  15:56



Kimberly Hoffman  15:56



Scott Kiesling  15:58

That, to me is commitment and discipline. And, you know, all of that kind of roll in.


Kimberly Hoffman  16:06



Matthew Hoffman  16:07

 So, a lot of people, it’s interesting, because when we’re talking about commitment, and you we talk a lot about self care as well, you know, the old oxygen mask analogy on the airplane, right? So what is it? What level? How do you determine the difference between, I’m taking care of myself so I can be there for you. Versus I’m being a little selfish and self indulgent and doing what I want, instead of what’s best for the relationship? How do you all navigate that? Or how do you what do you do to make sure that is indeed self care? And doesn’t lead to selfish care? In your relationship? Or what would what are your thoughts about that?


Nancy Kiesling  17:41

No. And that’s a really good point, because our mind chatter can get in the way and call ourselves selfish, right? When we’re taking that time, and when we’re first learning to take that time for ourselves. Because I think a lot of people are kind of taught that self care and taking time for self is selfish. So it’s a it’s a challenge to step through and start incorporating into your life if you don’t normally do that. And that was me, right? Like I said earlier, my parents always put us first, right, so it was they were not selfish, but they also did not do a lot of self care. When I look back, it was everyone else first. So learning that this was a better way and something I can incorporate for myself, I felt very guilty at first of taking time for myself. But open communication with Scott is what allows me to know, Is this too much? Am I you know, like when I feel that guilt? When I feel like maybe I’m taking a little too much time really communicating that instead of living inside my head of these stories that I’m telling myself, which 99% of the time are false, right? Letting that out of the bag and talking to him about it of like, Hey, this is what I’m thinking, Am I crazy? Or is this right? Right? And he’ll he’ll let me know, like, maybe I’m feeling Yeah, maybe you’re a little too much, or I’m feeling neglected right now. Or, you know, no, that’s totally fine. Go do it. You know, but that open communication allows us to know that boundary of what’s what’s good for both of us.


Scott Kiesling  19:07

Well, and I would just add to that, that it’s really what you hold inside, right? And you don’t communicate about and then what is your belief around it. So we believe that self care is the most important thing in our relationship. Right? Then other things come into play. So really having the belief around the idea of keeping myself healthy for Nancy, and then we also have other rituals, right? self care is not the only one. We have marriage maintenance. Right? So marriage maintenance, is the balance of self care. And in marriage maintenance, we make sure that we have date night, we make sure We have intimate conversation, we make sure that we bring up stories about our week that maybe we didn’t share. You know, that balances that out where there’s not many times we have the conversation that Nancy was alluding to a minute ago.


Kimberly Hoffman  20:21

I love the idea of marriage maintenance. And I think people forget how important it is to incorporate that into your relationship. Again, we’re busy, and we’re kind of doing our thing. And we forget to make time for each other, we forget to like you speak about be adventurous, together, we forget to do all these things. And that is a form of maintenance for our marriage. And so I’m grateful that you’re sharing that with our listeners, you touched a little bit about communication and are touched a little bit on it. And I’m curious to hear about your communication style, and how you can have learned to communicate these things with each other. Does it come easily? Is it something that had to be learned? Share with me a little bit about how you do that?


Scott Kiesling  21:09

Yeah. So it was definitely for me, it was definitely learned.


Nancy Kiesling  21:13

 Me too. 


Scott Kiesling  21:14

Because early on in my relationship journeys, I did not have good communication skills. So it’s absolutely learned and anyone, if I can learn how to communicate effectively, with the opposite sex, and even with the same sex, anybody can do it. What I say is that it’s practice, right? We can’t talk about having good communication skills or go, Yeah, I want to get better communication skills, the only way to do it is to practice. And to go back to one piece of your question there, yes, it’s uncomfortable in the beginning. Right? We’re as humans, we’re so we’re so used to patterned or habited to like, put up walls and not be vulnerable, and not have these in depth conversations? Well, you can have more intimacy in a conversation that will lead to other intimacy, right, than the intimate intimacy itself. And that level of communication only comes with practice. It only comes with understanding yourself and where you hold back and becoming vulnerable in that. 


Nancy Kiesling  22:38



Kimberly Hoffman  22:39



Matthew Hoffman  22:39

So in your learning journey. Scott, is you talk about that? What was the turning point? Or what was the key thing? Or what was the thing that puts you from? I’m climbing the hill, and I’m lousy to okay, I kind of get it and I’m doing better. And I’m now not a match. None of us are perfect. I screw up every day more than once. But she’s laughing. But tell me about a turning point? You know or the one thing or once I learned this, things began to change. What do you remember what that was? Or can you share something from that?


Scott Kiesling  23:12

Yeah, absolutely. So I’ve, I’ve been in the film industry for 30 years. And I watch great, incredible actors and directors build characters. And I started to look at my own character. And why I communicated the way that I did. And there are very clear reasons when I connect the dots going backwards. I communicated the way I did, because of the experiences I had, and what was modeled and all of that, and what I believed, right, our beliefs are a huge part of our communication, right? And the way that we communicate with other humans. And so as I started to, again, get coaches and mentors, and really dive into the character who I was, and the character who I wanted to become, and what was the gap, right, what did I have to learn? Who did I have to be calm? And so I would say if I had to narrow it down to the one skill, that was like, Oh, this is it. It’s awareness. It’s being aware that when somebody else was speaking, I was in my head, forming an opinion, forming a sentence, waiting for my turn to talk. Instead, with awareness and being present, I can actually hear without the filters of my old experiences. So if I can hear without the filters of my old experiences, I can see somebody else’s perception as a possibility. Again, I go back to the adventurous mindset. It’s about possibility. Is it possible that in Nancy’s reality? X, Y, Z is is this thing? Well, of course, in her perspective and her reality, because she’s speaking it, of course, it’s something. So in that awareness in that seeing that other perspective, I can go, okay. So what is creating this experience this, this, this opportunity for growth for us, and being open enough to see it for what it is not what I believe it sh ould be. 


Matthew Hoffman  25:41

Big difference. 


Kimberly Hoffman  25:42

So I hear you saying you’re slowing down, you are truly listening. And you know, you’re giving the person who’s speaking, an opportunity to really say what they need to say. And you’re just trying to take it all in and, you know, process it really without forming an opinion though.


Scott Kiesling  26:04

Yeah and more importantly, giving them an opportunity to be heard, not to speak, right? The more we give people the opportunity to speak, the less they feel heard, the louder they speak. The more I give her the opportunity, or anyone the opportunity to be heard, really heard from a presence from in this experience with you, and  really understand why it is that we’re here. Good, bad, indifferent, whatever that experience is, why are we here? And what opportunity are we being given in this moment, to grow?


Nancy Kiesling  26:47

Well, and that’s what it really does for the other person in the relationship as you do feel heard, right? Instead of me saying something, and him just regurgitating what he felt and what he thinks and not taking into account? Well, I hear what you’re saying. And I understand that. Most times in the arguments, we don’t hear each other because we’re just focused on but but you’re not hearing me, this is how I feel. Instead of actually listening and taking away the need to be right, the need for you to speak at that moment, and just really take in what the other person is saying and kind of put everything down for a minute, right doesn’t mean that we can’t pick it back up and go, Well, can you just see my side for a minute? But in that moment, we’re so click on you have to see my side right now. Rather than let me see your so it’s more of instead of the game of who’s right. It’s the game of who’s going to put their bag down first and listen, you know, and that really opens it up to understand one another in a really different way.


Scott Kiesling  27:47

And we use very intentional language. 


Nancy Kiesling  27:51



Scott Kiesling  27:51

Which again, has taken practice. So we use very intentional eye language. Right? I am feeling I am in this place. Not you have made me or you didn’t, or you always or you never, right?


Kimberly Hoffman  28:08

And this is my truth. This is my version. This is what I’m hearing here and here.


Scott Kiesling  28:13



Nancy Kiesling  28:13



Scott Kiesling  28:16

 When we receive that openly. The walls dropped. The argument isn’t an argument. It’s a conversation.


Matthew Hoffman  28:25

Yeah. I mean, there’s such a huge desire, I think all of us have a desire, maybe we can always put our finger on it. But we want to be understood and accepted for what you believe or don’t believe it doesn’t have to be agreement. And we’ll get to that in a moment. But anything else, Nancy on communication, that’s our second pillar, and you guys have been sharing anything else you want to add about communication and what it looks like between the two of you, or how you’ve been able to create the dance through your communication with each other.


Nancy Kiesling  28:58

Yeah, you know, communication wasn’t easy for me in the sense of really opening up to the things I felt right I was, I could talk to you about anything, I would tell people I’m open book, if you ask me something, I’ll tell you like, I don’t care. But if I had a problem with something, it was a huge struggle for me to bring that up in the relationship I would talk myself into, it’s fine. I didn’t want to nag them. I didn’t want to bring it up. I didn’t want to create conflict. I didn’t want them to think I was like not like me, or, you know, so many things. I would talk myself out of bringing up what I actually was feeling in the relationship or about even small things. Like I wish he’d pick your clothes up off the floor and put them away. Like I would just talk myself out of it and do it. So communication, I started to realize it was it went from those small things to the big, big things because I would push aside even bigger things right? So I had to learn that why do you keep putting all this on the side I would just become silent about that stuff. And all it did was create this divide in my relationships. So I started to realize that and realize that every relationship had this kind of surface based feel, and then a divide. So, it again, it comes back to you, whatever, I can’t keep blaming everyone else that I’m just dating people who aren’t open, or I’m not dating people who don’t hear me, it had to come back to what am I doing, that’s creating the same thing and every relationship. So there was a lot of work that had to be done around understanding that. But then when I got into my next relationship, it was practice, because I all of a sudden, would notice, oh, shoot, there’s that thing again, and I want to shut down, I don’t want to say something. And really stepping through that to go. know, when you say it, it actually brings the relationship closer and really doing it and then seeing the actual evidence that it does bring the person closer, and I get to play with that. And every time it was, you know, it’s it’s worked to step through that even today, I’ll notice that old voice coming up. But I stepped through it so much faster, instead of days of holding on to that it’s minutes, you know, but it doesn’t mean that those things aren’t going to come up for us. But the more we practice it, the more we step through, the easier like Scott said it becomes.


Matthew Hoffman  31:13

So kind of our third pillar, which, which is a little bit of the synthesis of commitment and communication is conflict or problem resolution. And you know, anybody I think one of the people we talked to one time said, if anybody tells you they never fight, then that’s probably just because one of them is giving in and accepting everything else the other person says and does, and watch how long that relationship lasts. And so inevitably, things come up. And when they do, Scott, I’d love to hear you share what is conflict resolution look like? How do you guys approach it? How do you work through it? And what could you share? That has been the best process for you guys to work through and get beyond those things that may come up?


Scott Kiesling  31:53

Yeah, I think the best process is really, I go back to awareness, right? I have a firm belief that with awareness, and a pause, we can reduce conflict to a conversation. So what I mean by that is, we all know, when we’re at that level of an argument of conflict, and to reduce it, we have to have awareness that we’re in that place, and it’s not your partner’s job to go up, you’re at a 10. Again, it’s your job to go, Okay, I’m bringing the volume up, I’m doing this. So where can I find that awareness and myself, and then take this pause. And in that pause, there’s a few things that we can do, depending on the conflict, right? If it’s, you know, you left some dishes in the sink, and it’s this, this, it’s like a one on the conflict scale between zero and 10, then you can have a hug, and decide what’s going to happen from that point, right, and the 15 second hug, drops that conflict from a one to a zero. If we’re in a conflict, and we’re in an eight, well, then it might mean in my awareness that, okay, I’m at an eight, I’m going to take a walk. And I’m going to take what we call an awareness walk, I’m going to go, and I’m going to be really critically aware and sexually of my environment, right, I’m going to have this situational awareness about the cars that pass the trees, I see the birds, the squirrels, and I’m going to drop the story. Have the conflict. And again, practice, right practice. In the beginning, I could do this like once a month, once a year, maybe. Now I don’t have to walk away at all, because I’ve built a system within myself to it’s like an indicator on your dashboard or your car. When your indicator light comes on that you need oil, you stop and you put oil in it. So when my indicator lights come on, I take a pause. And I investigate like, why am I so aggravated? What has caused this conflict? Right? Because let’s be honest, conflict comes from resistance. Right? You’re resisting something within your reality. So what is that? And what is the story that we’re telling ourselves around that? And then it’s like, okay, where’s the truth in it? Now, I am. So Gosh, darn grateful that I have a partner that will play this game with me. Because that’s what it takes, right? It takes a partner that’s willing to go, oh, normally, Every Thursday we get in a fight about this. Hey, let’s take a look at it. Let’s drop that eight to a six So let’s drop that six to a four. And through that practice, the communication grows. Because that’s where conflict is resolved. In the I feel, right, my shoulders are tense. And I feel a knot in my throat. And I am wanting to have a better conversation around you and your friends, you and going out you and the laundry, you in the dishes, whatever.


Matthew Hoffman  35:34



Nancy Kiesling  35:35

It is like explaining things. You know, a lot of times we get angry because we’re feel like we’re not being heard, right. That’s where usually the raising of the voice comes through. But we continue to explain things the same way. Right? I feel like in a conversation, whether it’s with him with a co worker with a employee with, you know, any sister sibling, it’s my job. If you’re not hearing me, too, okay, you’re not hearing me. So let me explain this again, in a different way. Right? We tend to just hammer it out in the same conversation, the same phrase of what I’m saying, and then I get frustrated of, you’re not hearing me. So I think if I say it louder, maybe you’re gonna hear it, right. I say it even louder, right? And we start in this yelling match, and both people are doing that. And no one hears anything.


Scott Kiesling  36:25

Instead, I can say something like, Hey, I’m not explaining this. Well. Yeah. Let me try and change my approach. 


Nancy Kiesling  36:32



Scott Kiesling  36:33

Right? It’s like a plane coming into a runway that’s full. He has to change his approach. There’s no problem. There’s no, it’s not like this dramatic thing. There’s a solution. Change the approach. 


Matthew Hoffman  37:29

Love that.


Kimberly Hoffman  37:54

 Yeah, that’s great. I want to talk a little bit more about our pillars. And you all have a list in front of you of the 14 pillars. We talked about the first three. But Nancy, I would love to hear from you first. Is there one of those pillars outside of the first three that really resonates with you? And why?


Nancy Kiesling  38:19

Let me see, looking over. My eyes are going between four and 12. So trust and honesty and appreciation, I think appreciation is a big one in our relationship, but also what we help people with because again, I think the majority of people live inside a story in their head of what is or isn’t happening. And we repeat that and then we miss what’s actually going on in the real world. Right? Because we tell ourselves, he doesn’t do anything. God, I have to do everything around the house, God, if you would just do this, if you would just do that. And we miss out on all the things they actually are doing. Right?  And this goes in both ways. And it goes in every facet of our life, work relationships, whichever one we’re in that story we miss out. So getting out of that story to actually go. What is happening, like my love language is acts of service, right? So all of a sudden, if I’m starting to feel like God, I feel like I’m been doing everything around here lately. I’m telling myself that story. I have to remove myself out of that story and go look around for a minute, watch him for a day, see what’s going on? Has he is he starting to like slack off and get bored and lazy or again in his own head? Is something going on right? Or am I in my own head and I’m thinking this and telling myself all you have to do this, you have to do that. And 99% of the time I watch and watch that he is doing all the things that he normally does, and actually he does a lot of stuff. You know, so I’ll remind myself that it’s an old pattern that I believe that I have to do everything and yeah So I was in relationships that I had to do everything. So that is a pattern that’s within me. But it still comes into my head. But it’s not my reality today. So if I don’t get out of that, then I’ll stay in the story and think that’s my reality. So we have to do that everyone’s got to get out of their head and look at what is really going on here. And appreciate the things that people are really doing for us. So we don’t feel unappreciated, unloved, not heard. already. Yeah, all these things that people are actually doing for you. And when you take note of it, sometimes you get surprised.


Kimberly Hoffman  40:33

Yeah, that’s an excellent way of putting it. It’s a great example. What are some ways that you show your appreciation for Scott?


Nancy Kiesling  40:44

Let’s see, what do I do, dear? Some things that I won’t say on radio, but also


Matthew Hoffman  40:49

Ding ding ding ding ding and he’s smiling and that’s all we got to say, okay. Something else though, Nancy. Okay, something else.


Nancy Kiesling  40:58

No, you know, thanking him for all the things he does do, like letting him know that I really appreciate when I have a lot on my plate, he picks up the rest of things he’ll, you know, make sure that, you know, the laundry is done, the house is clean that, you know, we’re a duo on these things. So really letting him know, the things I appreciate. You know, and I think, really, the, the words of affirmation are big in that. Yeah, so I think verbally letting them know.


Kimberly Hoffman  41:28

What about for you, Scott, what pillar really stands out to you and resonates with you most?


Scott Kiesling  41:36

So, I think what keeps jumping out for me, is the patience. You know, there was a time in my life where I wasn’t patient with people with anybody. And it came from it really came from the lack of significance in my life. And so to be significant, I was the loudest guy in the room, I was the zero to 10 sort of person, instead of being the person who could actively listen to what was going on. And take a view from what it actually is not what I want it to be, not what it should be. But what is it really that’s happening. And in that process, I have learned patience, I have practiced patience. So again, I go back to the, you know, I have, I have a three step action plan. And it’s like, I take it in every single step of my life. And patience is one of the places that I utilize this awareness, awareness of what is going on, what am I saying to myself? Am I in a story? Or am I being present? How am I feeling? Right? What feeling is coming up. And in that moment, being able to create a pause for me, within me, when I can take that pause, and I can look at that truth, then that third step is to take an action, different from an old action. Because the only way that I can get a different outcome is to do something different. And to in that pause in that patient moment, if you will, I get to slow everything down and really look at what the old action that Scott would have taken. Sometimes it comes up sometimes it doesn’t most of the time. Now it doesn’t. But in the beginning it did. I would look at okay, I’m I know I want to do this, like we can viscerally feel where we want to go. And I mean, my shoulders are getting tight for those of you that can’t see it. Like we know where we want to go. And in that pause, I can go okay, hold on. My shoulders are tight. I want to go this direction. Can I make a one degree shift? Can I shift that compass one degree, not 10 degrees, not 100 degrees, not 1000 degrees.


Matthew Hoffman  44:33

Just a little change. Just a small enhancement, yeah.


Kimberly Hoffman  44:36



Scott Kiesling  44:38

And I noticed that in that pause in that one degree shift. In that moment of being patient and present. I got different outcomes that blew my mind that changed my life.


Matthew Hoffman  44:52

 I love when I hear you telling that that story and that example, as you look at patients, two things come to mind one I don’t know Have you ever heard of the acronym PBR? Not Pabst Blue Ribbon, but pause, breathe, reflect. And someone else that heard her talk and use that acronym. And I think it comes down to if you are familiar with Viktor Frankl and his book Man’s Search for Meaning, he talks about between stimulus and response, there’s always a space. And in that space lies our freedom to choose how we are going to react and move on what we’ve just received. And I think that’s exactly what you’re saying. And it’s it’s wonderful, wonderful advice, because it’s being more self evaluative instead of other evaluative, it’s not the problem isn’t out there with somebody, the problems usually lie within and your examples is a great thing of doing that.


Kimberly Hoffman  45:50

Yeah. And I want our listeners to hear it takes practice.


Nancy Kiesling  45:55



Kimberly Hoffman  45:56

For some, it doesn’t come easy or natural, especially if you’ve had a history like you have had Scott. And so taking that space, that moment that pause, almost like a fork in the road, I can go to the left or I can go to the right I have a choice, right? And really making the right choice for the both of you. 


Nancy Kiesling  46:16



Kimberly Hoffman  46:18

But the right choice for the ‘We.’


Nancy Kiesling  46:21

Yeah, well, and Kimberly, I love that you mentioned that piece of like being patient with yourself. Because, you know, even my upbringing, and having, you know, the picture, perfect upbringing, it doesn’t matter. It’s the fact of the matter is, we’ve had this pattern for X amount of years, however old you are, you all of a sudden realize, you know, what I’d rather act behave differently in this realm, doesn’t matter what it is, if you just want to listen better, if you want to do something different, you have to understand you’ve had that pattern for 35 years, 40 years, it’s gonna take some time to turn the boat around and go the other direction. And we have to be patient and conditioned ourselves in a new way. But most people feel like I should be doing I have awareness, so I should just do it. And when you start to understand human behavior, and that it takes conditioning, you get much more patient with yourself. And you’re like, oh, yeah, of course, I just did that, because it was my pattern for 35 years, right. And then we can kind of laugh about it and move in a different direction.


Scott Kiesling  47:18

Well, and I love that you utilize the word choice, because the power of choice is one of the absolute superpowers of the human being. Right? And when we have choice, it turns reaction into action. So choice is such a key.


Matthew Hoffman  47:41

Absolutely. And, you know, even though you came from different backgrounds with as we all do, and you bring different things forward that you have to deal with individually, or ultimately, collectively, the idea of choice versus victimization is a choice. So if you’re gonna get out of the pattern, change the routine have a different destination, or different result, as you’re talking about Scott, I’m going to choose to not be a victim and say, What can I do? Not what should they do. And I think that dynamic is huge in most relationships, because most people who are struggling and can’t get out of conflict, because they’re demanding or waiting for the other person in the party to do the work for things to be okay, as opposed to, I’ve got to do my work. And, of course, their circumstances have done my work, and they just don’t want to do anything. That’s something else. But I love that idea. And so you guys have had a lot of great experiences, individually and collectively. But I want you guys we’re gonna put you in a time machine. Nancy, you go in first, you get to go back to your unmarried self never been in a committed relationship. You get to put your hands on your own shoulders and say, here’s the one piece of advice you really need to know about relationships. What would you say to your unmarried self?


Nancy Kiesling  49:03

 I think I think it would be to well, I guess that would be all relationships, not so much a committed relationship. But the first thing that comes to mind for me is not caring so much. Or thinking so much about what other people think. Because then you get out of your own self. So I was very concerned with what other people thought of me. So a lot of my behaviors came from that. So of course in my romantic relationships, it was always wanting to be liked, because I’d be thinking, well, if I do this, if I you know, act, my authentic self, basically, if I do what I initially felt, then they might not like me because I you know, thought that might be stupid or whatever. So it starts to gear you to really never be your true self because you’re just doing things out of the hope that someone’s going to continue to like you So I think that would be the biggest piece of advice is just to be you, and stop thinking that people aren’t going to like you by being you.


Matthew Hoffman  50:08

Love it. Love it. How about you, Scott, what would you say to your unmarried itself, here’s the one thing you’ve got to know, to get the most success in relationship in your life?


Scott Kiesling  50:20

Yeah, I, you know, authenticity came up first, but Nancy stole it. So, the second piece that comes up for me, is to learn from others. Just because you’re living from the vehicle that you were modeled to be, or the character that you were modeled to be, that doesn’t mean that other relationships don’t exist. A lot of us and a lot of our clients, we’ve we’ve heard this from hundreds of clients, that they didn’t realize that there were other types of relationships than the ones that they had always been in. So whether that was abusive, or a cheater, or a narcissist or a non communicator, or they didn’t realize that not everybody’s relationship had a piece of this in it. And I feel like understanding and really learning from others about relationships would have been the most important for my, like, 13 year old self, to understand that it can be different. This isn’t what love looks like. 


Matthew Hoffman  51:36



Kimberly Hoffman  51:36



Matthew Hoffman  51:37



Kimberly Hoffman  51:38

I love talking about intimacy within a relationship, because there are so many different kinds of intimacy, as we all know, their spiritual, intellectual, emotional, sexual. And so what have you done to keep the intimacy alive and well in your relationship over time?


Scott Kiesling  51:58

So, the number one thing for me is, is really keeping the adventure within it. And again, that that can mean a lot of things. 


Nancy Kiesling  52:09



Scott Kiesling  52:10

Yeah, play. And that is not only getting out in nature and getting our dopamine that way, but actually having those deep conversations.


Nancy Kiesling  52:23

I think that’s, you know, when we first met, what I remember most, because you just listed all the different kinds of intimacy, the spiritual intimacy, I remember feeling was this. And I can see it clear as day I remember pulling up and he was waiting at the restaurant, we were friends, and we were going to have dinner. And it was this feeling of like, I hadn’t seen this person in years. And I was so excited to sit and chat for hours. And I was like, being like, I don’t know, I don’t even know this person, like, Why do I feel this way? But it was this connection. And I really, the more we get to know each other, and here we are. 10 years later, I really think there was a spiritual connection between our souls of coming together and how we came together. And I think I was feeling that I really think it was like, Oh, my God, my soul was like, I haven’t seen you in forever. Let’s catch up. And to be able to keep that we’ve always had long conversations. We’ve always made time for long conversations, even though life gets busy and chaotic and crazy.


Scott Kiesling  53:21

And not even long, but deep. 


Nancy Kiesling  53:23



Scott Kiesling  53:23

There’s a depth to our conversation. Right?


Nancy Kiesling  53:27

Play all that kind of came along as well.


Scott Kiesling  53:29

Yeah, and the, you know, I’m gonna say this the most rated PG that I can. The best foreplay is to be connected at a soul level by actively listening to your partner, and actually having them feel heard. There is an intimacy level there, then again, can actually go past the, the just sexual intimacy. It’s such a deeper connection. 


Kimberly Hoffman  54:07

Yeah. We’ve had couples that have said, you know, the wife has said, foreplay for me starts in the morning. With great conversation. Absolutely. feel closer, right? 


Nancy Kiesling  54:21



Kimberly Hoffman  54:21

And then it leads to the best sexual intimacy that you can possibly have within a relationship.


Nancy Kiesling  54:27



Scott Kiesling  54:28



Matthew Hoffman  54:28

No doubt. So I’m curious. We’ve been asking lots of questions, but I’d love to hear from you guys. Is there any question we haven’t asked that you wish we would have? Are you something that you’d like to share with us?


Kimberly Hoffman  54:49

A burning desire to tell our audience is?


Nancy Kiesling  54:54

Of what the do’s and don’ts Yeah, you know what? What were we just talking about the other day?  About you know, the little things, the small details, right? And really, as far as relationships go and intimate, committed relationships. I think sometimes for a lot of people that small details get overlooked, or they get unappreciated. You know, we were having conversations about, like, you know, even hearing each other about the small things like, I wish you would not squeeze the toothpaste at the top instead of the bottom or right, and the different things that humans have as their own independent pet peeves, but listening to that for one another? And is it really that big of a deal to just do it for the other person? Right, it doesn’t mean that you’re like, bending over and just not going to, you know, okay, I just do whatever you say, it’s doing it for the love of the person, like, Okay, I didn’t realize that was something like, oh, it drives you nuts when I do, you know, I leave my coffee cup here 


Scott Kiesling  55:56

Comes back to the commitment. Right?


Nancy Kiesling  55:58

 Yeah. You know, like,


Scott Kiesling  55:59

We are committed to being in a loving relationship. 


Scott Kiesling  56:03

Yeah. So,


Nancy Kiesling  56:05

You know, and so those little details matter? Because those are the things that pile up.


Matthew Hoffman  56:09

Yeah you got to sweat the small stuff. Because when you love and you’re committed to somebody, that’s part of the answer. And I think you guys have been fantastic today in open and sharing. We’re so grateful to have had the conversation with you and get to know you a little bit better. If people want to find more out about Scott and Nancy, and what you guys do, where should they go?


Nancy Kiesling  56:31

Well, exactly that just honestly, Google, Scott and Nancy, it will take you to all of our whether it’s Facebook, or Instagram or website, because everything is under Scott and Nancy keys link. So you can just put Scott and Nancy in there. And we’re blessed enough that everything will come up or you’ll get that. And you can reach out through any of those platforms to contact us if you have any questions.


Matthew Hoffman  56:54



Nancy Kiesling  56:55



Kimberly Hoffman  56:55

You guys have been awesome. I’m so grateful for your authenticity and your really vulnerability today, talking about your backgrounds, and so grateful for all the work that you’re doing in this same similar space and helping couples within relationships. So thank you so much.


Nancy Kiesling  57:15

Yeah, you’re welcome. It was our pleasure.


Matthew Hoffman  57:17

Thank you. And we always like to close by saying you know that happily ever after does not just happen. It is on purpose. So thanks for being with us today, guys.


Scott Kiesling  57:27

Thanks for having us.


Nancy Kiesling  58:03

Thank you.