Skip to main content
Kickass Couples Podcast

How Women Can Shape Their Best Relationship – Ep. 115 SPECIAL RECAP

By August 9, 2023No Comments



love, women, relationship, feel, jessica, frank, cherish, give, pastor, man, kim, threatening, lovers, partner, talk, episode, build, real, scrunch, perspective


Kimberly Hoffman, Matthew Hoffman


Matthew Hoffman  00:12

Welcome back to the Kickass Couples Podcast. We have an incredible recap of an incredible episode today. We had the pleasure of speaking with two incredible specialists in their field. One was our own Jessica Jennings from the greatest marriage ever. She is just got so much great stuff. And Dr. Frank Legette,  who’s a pastor for 40 years and has written a book about what women need to do to have the best relationship Kim and that was kind of our topic today that we jumped into and just what was one of my favorite interviews, I think we’ve done.


Kimberly Hoffman  03:46

We’ve done a lot of great interviews, for sure. But I really appreciated Jessica and Pastor Legette’s perspectives on this issue of women building, you know, their perfect relationship. 


Matthew Hoffman  04:01

And it’s a little different for men and women just I mean, we’re different creatures, we come at things differently. And I think it was really important. I learned a lot as a man, obviously, with a different perspective than what you have. And I’m going to come out and say it Kim, women have it harder in relationships, because I think the societal pressures and the norms are so stinking strong of what they have to overcome. And I think they kind of start at a disadvantage almost.


Kimberly Hoffman  04:30

I would agree with that. I think there are a lot of barriers that they have to overcome. And we’ll talk about that in a little bit. But I believe that women do have it a little more difficult and challenging, and that there are hurdles to overcome, but it can be done and I really love what this episode shared and how the responses were both from a male and female perspective on how we can build that perfect, great relationship.


Matthew Hoffman  05:03

And I think it’s important to remember that yes, there is a woman’s perspective and what women have to do. But you’ll, if you listen to this episode, you’re gonna see so many great pearls from both Jessica and Pastor Frank.


Kimberly Hoffman  05:15



Matthew Hoffman  05:16

 And you know, Pastor Frank came from a standpoint Kim, where he said, You know, I failed in a relationship, and it cost me my marriage. And he had to kind of get real with himself and learn and say, if I want to be successful, not only what do I have to do, but how can I help women do what they need to do to find that tease. 


Kimberly Hoffman  05:35

He went about making that his mission, which you have to love. So he really turned his thought and his attention around.


Matthew Hoffman  05:39

He did. And so what was one of your first big takeaways that you got out of this interview? And coming out of the gate with kind of that? I think we started with really that question to both Jessica and Pastor Frank about, you know, why is this an issue? And what should a woman do?


Kimberly Hoffman  05:59

Right, right. Well, what do we have to do to build? Where do we start to build that most intimate relationship, and I love Jessica’s response, initiative, a lot of women are searching for lasting love, right? And for something that’s going to be significant and deep and meaningful, something that we’re really going to treasure. And she said that our eye is so naturally drawn to the externals, but we really need to be looking to the internal and building our own selves and our own qualities. And that that’s what really matters. She said, and also realizing that once we’re really seeing what those deep qualities are, that we, once we recognize them, that we own them, and that they’re important and that they matter, and that we believe in ourselves.


Matthew Hoffman  06:50

Yeah, I mean, I think you’re right, you know, women are put under so much more outward scrutiny than men in the standard of what they have to be in with have to look like, but I think what, what resonated with me in that comment, Kim is it’s not what’s most important, and a woman has to own. I mean, everybody cares how they look to a degree, some care more and some care less, right, obviously, what’s so inherently valuable and lasting?


Kimberly Hoffman  07:15

 It’s what’s on the inside.


Matthew Hoffman  07:16

Yeah, it’s what’s on the inside.


Kimberly Hoffman  07:17

It’s who we are at our core, 


Matthew Hoffman  07:19



Kimberly Hoffman  07:19

that really is what really matters the most. And I think that, you know, she, I loved I’m gonna I’m gonna use her words, because I want to say it correctly. She said, I’m so excited to be here with you today to mine the jewels and the gems of what it is that we need to be looking for in someone else, while also cultivating it in ourselves, to have the depth of the relationship that will truly be satisfying.


Matthew Hoffman  07:46

Yeah, she she says things so clearly. And so, matter of fact, it’s really easy to latch on to I mean, not just what she said there. And then I think Frank fouled it up, he goes, You know, hey, I’m going to frame it this way, is my first takeaway. He goes, it’s the wedding day, right? You got the bride, you got the groom. You got to preach to the priests, the rabbi, he goes, whatever your witnesses are your friends, everybody goes and says I do. And you know, the pastor, the preacher saying, do you promise? Will you do this? And he said, every man on the planet, of course says yes. Right? I promised to do that. And then as a guy, he said, we go about immediately, not doing at least one right away. 


Matthew Hoffman  08:32

it’s like, you know, the cakes, not even frozen off the top of the wedding cake for a year from now. And we’re already messing it up and stepping in it. And he said, many love. Yes. And they feel they love He said, But the challenge is, is that men need to love and cherish their wives. And he said, You know and  he said, guys, women typically don’t care how much money you have, what kind of car you drive, what kind of house you’re going to live in. Those things are all nice, but it doesn’t really matter. What women want to know is how much you love and cherish them. And that you’re making them a priority. That they’re number one in your life, not the car, not the house, not the job, not somebody or something else. And that’s really Kim fundamentally what KCN is founded on is that when you make your partner, your spouse a priority, your number one commitment. Everything else flows from there. Are you tired of feeling like you’re living with a roommate instead of a lover? 


Kimberly Hoffman  08:32



Kimberly Hoffman  09:36

I would agree and you know,  we as women tend to be more emotional, we’re emotional creatures. And so when we know that we’re loved, and we’re cherished, and that we are a priority in our partner’s life, we are going to respond in such a beautiful way. I think we’re going to you’re going to automatically see that back at you. Once we feel that


Matthew Hoffman  10:55

Yeah, absolutely. Pastor Frank said he was at a conference that he was giving a talk. And he and he got the question from a guy said, Pastor, how do I cherish my wife? And he said, well, first of all, you got to make her a priority, she’s not second, third, fourth, fifth, whatever it is, and when she’s cherish, she’s gonna feel the love, and respond in love and come out that kind of brings, the thing I want to talk to you about a little bit and with our listeners is the whole idea of self serve, love, you know, I have a family member and you know, who I’m talking about, who kind of shows up in a lot of ways in says, Hey, come love me, like, come serve me, Come give me your love. And that’s really hard. And I think if a man or a woman is sitting in a relationship, and expecting that love is gonna come to them, that’s just not how it works.


Kimberly Hoffman  11:46

Right. There has to be reciprocity. And I think the more we love, in give, naturally, and without expectation, it’s, it’s, we’re doing it, you know, back and forth as this dance with each other, then that’s when the real love and the cherished feelings come. And we’re pursuing each other. Right? So that’s what we’re talking about this dance that comes in that I continue to pursue you. And as I pursue you, then you’re back pursuing me. And then we just get into this beautiful rhythm of loving each other and cherishing each other so genuinely, and it’s not forced, right? It’s not, I have to do this. It’s not quid pro quo. You know?


Matthew Hoffman  12:34

Well, it’s not 5050, either. 


Kimberly Hoffman  12:36

No, it can’t be.


Matthew Hoffman  12:38

Yeah, it’s not Well, I do have you do half.


Kimberly Hoffman  12:40



Matthew Hoffman  12:40

 So women, if you’re sitting out there saying, you know, I’m not gonna love him until he loves me first. That’s hard, you know, if that’s the guy, and he hears it. Yeah, you got to pursue and love and then it should come back. If it doesn’t. That’s another discussion.


Kimberly Hoffman  12:55



Matthew Hoffman  12:55

But if you want that love, and you strive that love, it’s like, you’ve got to go do it, and be out there meeting. And when you’re out there meeting the other person and your partner’s meeting you right back. That’s the magic. And that’s when it happens.


Kimberly Hoffman  13:07

100 percent.


Matthew Hoffman  13:08

What was your next takeaway?


Kimberly Hoffman  13:09

 So, I loved the talk that we had about how women have to break through barriers to be successful, right successful at home successful at work within their relationship. There are a lot of demands and pressures. We were talking about that a little bit earlier, that are put on women. And so I think Jessica’s response was that there are a lot of times women don’t fully understand what the real details are of intimacy, and what it really entails. So for an example, she said, as you dig deeper the word intimacy, we’re just trying to be really fully open and honest about who we are, right? And what we want, and the barriers that she said you’re talking about, or the fact that we don’t think it’s acceptable, to be who we are, we have to be someone else. We have to show up as a different person. We don’t bring our true selves. And it’s what stands in the way of having a really good relationship with our partner. So really digging deep and knowing ourselves and showing up and being genuine, is a good way to break through that barrier.


Matthew Hoffman  14:22

Yeah, Kim is being inauthentic, right, because if a woman feels she’s got to be something other than she is right, to be loved to be cherished, then she’s not feeling so good, because it’s not who she really is or who she really wants to be. And I think that’s, you know, authenticity is huge. And also if you’re not authentic in your communication, if there if there are times that one of us, you know that you’re not feeling a certain way, but maybe you’re just saying it to placate or because you think is what I want to hear, man, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Because you know, it’s not genuine like you can say, Oh, I don’t really don’t mind that but if you do It’s hard to lie or hard to express that in a way that’s believable. And I think


Kimberly Hoffman  15:05

Especially when you’ve been together for a long time, you know that tone that just sort of body language.


Matthew Hoffman  15:13

it may not even be words, it could be 


Kimberly Hoffman  15:15

 It could just be a look like, Well, 


Matthew Hoffman  15:17

You say to me all the time you go, Oh, you don’t give me that I roll. Or don’t scrunch up, you know, I say to you don’t scrunch up 


Kimberly Hoffman  15:23

my nose. 


Matthew Hoffman  15:24

Don’t give me the pug nose, the scrunch like yeah, I don’t really believe. Because man, you can, you can tell. And I think, you know, Jessica went on to say a little bit, Kim, I love she said, I encourage women to do three things when  when she encourages them, she’s saying that they need to please perform, and perfect when they’re feeling those three things. You’ve got to bring your presence to it. You can’t just focus on doing those things and all that external stuff, as a woman, because women are always trying to please always trying to perform, and always trying to perfect and that means you’re missing out on the most intimate moments in life. She said, all you’ve got to do is be present, and be real with what you’re thinking and feeling and throw that other stuff out the window. 


Kimberly Hoffman  16:13

Yeah. And then from Frank’s perspective, which he brings a more spiritual background to us.


Matthew Hoffman  16:22

No doubt.


Kimberly Hoffman  16:22

you know, so he comes from a very faith filled and spiritual perspective. He said, Ephesians, five is real. And it’s simple. It’s very clear husband, love your wives as Christ loved the church, and gave Himself for her. So he’s saying that this is what we need to do for our wives. We we want to be the lovers and the givers. And so I appreciated how he said this and that, that typically, the problem is that women are the lovers and the givers. And they’re not really in the relationships. And typically, they’re not feeling that in return, they’re feeling like they’re sort of doing all the loving the giving and the sacrificing. And it’s not coming back to them.


Matthew Hoffman  17:18

Yeah, and they’re the pleasers, too not just the lovers in the game, but they’re doing more of the pleasing or they feel kind of not fairly, that they’re required to do that. And it’s really it’s that bilateral commitment in the relationship. feel


Kimberly Hoffman  18:38

Sort of feel like it’s our job to keep everything flowing and heart peace and harmony within the family unit. And it’s a lot of responsibility. It’s a lot of pressure.


Matthew Hoffman  18:47

It is. And that kind of lead Kim led to our next point, which was okay. If a woman is sitting here and she’s thinking, Oh, my gosh, that seems like a lot or I’m overwhelmed, where can a woman start? If they want to, like say, I’m out here on the journey, man, I want that best relationship. Where should they start? Like, what are some of the first things they should consider?


Kimberly Hoffman  19:07

Yeah. You know, she said, You’ve got to really or I would say that Frank started first the conversation saying that women who are the only ones in the world who are the experts that have knowing exactly what we want, right? We’re the experts. We know how we want to be loved. We know how we communicate, and we understand what makes us feel valued. And so we have to share that we have to be able to communicate that to our spouse, and so kind of comes back to sharing it. And he also said that your approach is everything. So sharing it in a way that you are loving, that you’re coming across as being vulnerable, as being open and honest. And I think Jessica even had some great ways of sharing  how she does that, which I found were phenomenal. Made me want to.


Matthew Hoffman  20:09

Yeah, well, one thing he said that I want to make sure is ladies, you can’t be like you’re taking your guy to school. Like, hey, I’m the teacher, you’re wrong. I’m right. And let me just tell you, right? Because I’m a guy. And when we feel like we’re being either micromanaged or nagged or whatever, and you’re not, you know, when it’s the wagon finger and not Cupid’s arrow, it is not going to get through and we are going to close down and close up, right. But if you’re saying, Hey, this is how I like to be loved, and give us an example of when we’ve done it, right, and say man,


Kimberly Hoffman  20:44

This is important to me.


Matthew Hoffman  20:45

if you give me more of the same, I am going to be ecstatic because we want to perform. We want to give you what you want. But we’re not so good at asking.


Kimberly Hoffman  20:56

Well, we were all built for love and connection, right? We know that, scientifically, it’s been proven. That’s what we were built for. And we all like it in different ways. We’re all made up very differently. And we can’t just assume what those differences are. We’ve got to talk about and we got to go back to our love languages


Matthew Hoffman  21:16

 and different seasons. 


Kimberly Hoffman  21:18

Communication styles, 


Matthew Hoffman  21:19



Kimberly Hoffman  21:19



Matthew Hoffman  21:19

 And different days of the week at this. I mean, if it’s what you need depends on the situation depends on where you are, emotionally, where your headspace is. And it’s kind of the same for guys. I think one of the things I loved that Jessica jumped on that she said, women, you got to start at the point of pain, or fear. What pain or fear are you identifying? In other words, where in the relationship are things hurting you the most, and then you need to be vulnerable and say, Hey, this is bothering me, right? I’m struggling with this. I’m afraid of that. And be vulnerable, and share those deep emotions so that wherever your point of most discomfort is, and then give the man an opportunity, your guy or your partner in the situation, what they need to do to help address that for you.


Kimberly Hoffman  22:08

Yeah, I’m going to quote her again. Because she said, as we understand ourselves, we’re going to be able to then communicate and articulate from a place of understanding rather than judgment. So she said, judgment and fear are aligned, and love and acceptance are going to be aligned. So as we move into caring for ourselves, and saying, it matters, what pains you and what bothers you?


Matthew Hoffman  22:33

Yeah. And then she gave I want to close, Kim, I mean,


Kimberly Hoffman  22:37

I know we can go on and on, 


Matthew Hoffman  22:38

we’re not even…


Kimberly Hoffman  22:39

about this amazing episode


Matthew Hoffman  22:40

a third of the way through from the goal that came out of this from both of these. The spiritual and the practical, but Jessica has some great kind of, I would say, tactical advice of something that she does in her relationship, do you want to share that a little bit, you know, of what she said, This is what I do. This is why it works. And this is why it’s something you can do as well.


Kimberly Hoffman  23:02

I love that she explained her communication style when she and her husband are having a disagreement. She said she positions herself to either be sitting a side of him, or sometimes even, she’ll sit on the floor. And she’ll look up at him directly into his eyes. And she said that she will speak in very low tones while they’re having this discussion. She said, Because your brain automatically soothes when people are speaking in low tones to so scientifically, she just puts him on a level of being calm and not having fear, and…


Matthew Hoffman  23:48

non threatening, by being lower.


Kimberly Hoffman  23:50

 And so that’s just that she said, I’m not I’m not positioning myself as being small. I’m positioning myself as non threatening to him and non judgmental. And she said and that’s different. She said, I am absolutely the most important person in his life. But to be non threatening is to tell his primal brain, you are safe. And that gave me goosebumps. 


Matthew Hoffman  24:19

I know, it was great.


Kimberly Hoffman  24:19

 I thought that is some of the best advice that you can give to couples and they can do it for each other. It’s not just about her doing it for him. She does it because she loves and she honors him. And she doesn’t want them to be afraid in that moment. But he can be doing the same thing for her.


Matthew Hoffman  24:38

Oh, no doubt. It’s not just for women, men. Guys, if you’re listening and if you’re talking to your wife, your partner about something sensitive or tender or that she’s got a lot of strong emotions around, lowering your voice, being calm and quiet and being in a place that you are non threatening and where she can receive it is going to Make her a most comfortable, be most willing to listen to you. And it will put her fears at ease when you’re willing to do those same thing. So what great advice from Jessica for women and for men as well. And, guys, we say this often, but we’re not even a third of the way through of what we learned and heard from Pastor Frank Legtte and Jessica Jennings. So if you haven’t heard this episode…


Kimberly Hoffman  25:25

 They were dynamic. Both of them, they both had an incredible amount of advice. And I think if you are a woman and you are out there and you are struggling, and you are looking to build that best relationship, or next best relationship, this is the interview for you.


Matthew Hoffman  25:46

Check it out. If you liked the episode, please give us a rating a review. If there’s anything you want to hear that we’re not coming on, let us know and we’ll get out there and guys. Yes, we’re going to get back to the male side. Look in the future. 


Kimberly Hoffman  26:00

Yes, that’s the next one.


Matthew Hoffman  26:01

for what a man can do to build his best relationship. And as always, we want everybody to remember…


Kimberly Hoffman  26:08

happily ever after doesn’t just happen. It’s on purpose.